I dislike the new pride flag design and here's why

Page 1 of 2 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,733
Location: England

21 Jun 2021, 8:02 am

So, you may have seen a redesign of the rainbow flag floating around the Internet recently. If not, here's the one I am going to be discussing in this thread :

Image

From the title of the thread, you already know that I dislike this design. Now, here are my reasons why :

1) It's chaotic. Too many colours which makes it harsh on the eyes (bright yellow right next to white? Seriously?). It's not immediately clear what is being communicated here and this is confusing. From a graphic design perspective, this flag is breaking a lot of design rules and I don't think it's justified here.

2) Skin colour is more complex than what is being represented. I understand the sentiment and we definitely should be having conversations about intersectionality. However, it's not as simple as brown, black and white. What about countless other skin tones that are being overlooked? Such as particular Asian identities that don't fit into these skin tone categories?

3) Further on that topic, I think that it goes against the intended message. The fact that it's implied that the rainbow represents white people by adding the brown and black stripes in (which implies that POC weren't already included in the rainbow) just further enforces the idea that white is the expected state of being in the community rather than fighting against this narrative. I don't want to overstep here as a white person, but this does not sit well with me.

4) I've heard it said that the black stripe also represents the people in the community that have been lost due to AIDS. Conflating the two is confusing and could have some concerning implications.

5) Why add the Trans flag? This is what the blue, pink and white stripes represent. Yet again, I understand the sentiment, there should be more focus on Trans rights and this can be an overlooked part of the community. However, I think that the Trans flag works better as a stand alone flag than being awkwardly shoved onto the rainbow one. It looks like an afterthought rather than a carefully incorporated aspect of the flag.

6) I've never particularly been a fan of the design of the Intersex flag, but as a stand alone flag I think that it is OK and that it communicates what it needs to. For those wondering, Intersex is a category that includes a variety of medical conditions where an individual cannot easily be assigned male or female due to differences in chromosomes, reproductive or sexual anatomy etc.

7) This design would be a nightmare to print and distribute. Fortunately, it does not seem to be in popular use. I much prefer the simple rainbow design. Yes, I am aware that the rainbow was not the original design and that it used to have more stripes but it was simplified for distribution purposes (for example, to fit onto a post-box during pride events). Still, I think that redesign was enough then and it's enough now.


_________________
Possibly B.A.P.
22.


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,727
Location: Poland

21 Jun 2021, 8:10 am

I'm probably behind with what's chic now because I'm seeing this flag for the first time... and I think it looks awful. Just bad design. Chaos.
I always interpreted the rainbow as a symbol of diversity, so to me, the rainbow flag as a whole encompasses everyone who needs to be encompassed - though I'm far from being a specialist on the topic.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 77,136
Location: Queens, NYC

21 Jun 2021, 8:52 am

I don't think it's bad----it's just something one would have to get used to.

It certainly gave me a slight headache when I first saw it.

Reminds me of my reaction to Baroque Art-----it's beautiful, but it's too loud and gives me a headache.



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 13,384
Location: I'm right here

21 Jun 2021, 8:59 am

Clown pants.


_________________
the problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of other people's resources and cheap labour to exploit
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 19
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 5,714
Location: Pacific Northwest

21 Jun 2021, 9:52 am

I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 19
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 5,714
Location: Pacific Northwest

21 Jun 2021, 9:55 am

magz wrote:
I always interpreted the rainbow as a symbol of diversity, so to me, the rainbow flag as a whole encompasses everyone who needs to be encompassed - though I'm far from being a specialist on the topic.

Exactly. The choice to add these things kind of defeats the purpose of the rainbow flag due to that, since it's already a sign of diversity and is supposed to represent everyone.


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 13,384
Location: I'm right here

21 Jun 2021, 10:13 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:


_________________
the problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of other people's resources and cheap labour to exploit
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 19
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 5,714
Location: Pacific Northwest

21 Jun 2021, 10:20 am

funeralxempire wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:

Ohh, that makes more sense! I've just always heard a lot of them don't want to be included in the LGBT, so it struck me as weird to put the flag on there since it seemed kind of rude. If they are okay with being included then I guess that isn't an issue. lol


_________________
I use he/him pronouns.

I like playing video games, watching cartoons and anime, reading, and cooking.

I have two cats, a rabbit, and a dog. I also enjoy learning + cataloguing information about different types of animals and plants.

Empathy Quotient: 34/80
Systemizing Quotient: 104/150
Friendship Quotient: 56/140
Autism Quotient: 36/80

RAADS-R: 169

CAT-Q: 153
Compensation: 57
Masking: 47
Assimilation: 49

Your broader autism cluster (Aspie) score: 144 of 200.
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 63 of 200.
You are very likely on the broader autism cluster (Aspie).


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 36
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 13,384
Location: I'm right here

21 Jun 2021, 10:30 am

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't understand why the intersex flag was even added because I've always heard that intersex people usually don't want to be included in the LGBT. The rainbow also doesn't even represent a specific race/gender/sexuality/whatever, so I don't get the other flags being added in since the flag isn't just for gay people. This is coming from a trans person. :scratch:


Historically a lot of intersex activists weren't so fond of the idea, primarily due to social mores towards the LGBT community at the time. They didn't want to criticize hetero-normative or binary gender norms even if there were queer people within their community because of concerns that it might undermine the fights they did wish to have.

Younger folks who've grown up without some of those pressures seem to be more likely to view orientation and gender minorities as natural allies of sexual minorities.

Or so it seems from my perspective. :nerdy:

Ohh, that makes more sense! I've just always heard a lot of them don't want to be included in the LGBT, so it struck me as weird to put the flag on there since it seemed kind of rude. If they are okay with being included then I guess that isn't an issue. lol


Internalized bigotry has contributed to a lot of cracks between different blocs within the queer and adjacent communities but as attitudes change some of those cracks might vanish (as the ever expanding alphabet soup demonstrates).


_________________
the problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of other people's resources and cheap labour to exploit
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う


SandWitch
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 9 Jun 2021
Age: 30
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 61
Location: Quantum Dust Cloud

21 Jun 2021, 10:57 am

I could care less about the flag.. when it comes down to it, the changes were made (at the end of the day) as merely another means of tieing in corporate interests, to further expand the spectrum of those in the "alphabet community" (myself included) into buying their products as a token of capitalizing of from our blinded gratitude as queer people for being "included" by the mainstream; the privilege of being acknowledged...

More products to make, more shows and movies to produce and video games to include these insectionalized communities into their marketing narrative to make more money from our pockets.

Once June's over, we don't exist to them, until next "pride month".

Call me cynical, but those are my thoughts on it.

But ya, it's an ugly flag; agreed.



steve30
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Posts: 301
Location: Rotherham

21 Jun 2021, 9:56 pm

As a homosexual man I disapprove of these new flags. Mostly because they incorporate unrelated causes.

Transgenderism has very little to do with sexuality.
Ethnic minorities has very little to do with sexuality.

If we are going to start including these things, why don't we include some extra stripes for disabled/autistic gays as well?

I will admit that I quite like it in terms of its visual appearance, but that's about it.



Bradleigh
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2008
Age: 31
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 6,612
Location: Brisbane, Australia

22 Jun 2021, 12:08 am

steve30 wrote:
Mostly because they incorporate unrelated causes.

Transgenderism has very little to do with sexuality.
Ethnic minorities has very little to do with sexuality.


I think that is part of the problem. The rainbow flag kind of gets called both the gay pride flag and pride in general, people thinking that it is just sexuality, while I understand that at least most of the other identities do have individual flags. But it seems kind of silly in whether the rainbow flag was already excluding groups.

I actually understand it that the modern rainbow flag without the extra bits on the side already had some stripes removed from its original to make it easier, so it is kind of chaotic to keep adding in more. I don't know a whole lot, but I kind of think that rainbow flag should have stayed simple as the Pride movement in general without generally needing to tie specific colours to causes, and then the additional flags for specific groups. Are we otherwise going to add in stuff for asexual, neurodivergent and so on?

But maybe it was already being a problem from people within Pride that want to exclude other groups.


_________________
Through dream I travel, at lantern's call
To consume the flames of a kingdom's fall


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,733
Location: England

28 Jun 2021, 7:24 am

On a somewhat related note, I dislike that the symbol for the NHS is so similar. People are confusing the two. The NHS has an arched rainbow, whereas the flat rainbow stripes are the pride flag.

This:

Image

Not this:

Image

It feels odd whenever I see a pride flag with NHS written over it in pen. Of course we can't copyright a rainbow, but I do wish more people knew the difference. Please just use the actual NHS symbol and not write over pride flags.


_________________
Possibly B.A.P.
22.


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,174
Location: New York City (Queens)

26 Jul 2021, 4:53 pm

SandWitch wrote:
I could care less about the flag.. when it comes down to it, the changes were made (at the end of the day) as merely another means of tieing in corporate interests, to further expand the spectrum of those in the "alphabet community" (myself included) into buying their products as a token of capitalizing of from our blinded gratitude as queer people for being "included" by the mainstream; the privilege of being acknowledged...

No, the expanded definitions of the community were made by activists who saw a natural alliance.

Corporate interests may have capitalized on the alliance (and have become more and more involved with annual Pride parades over the years, at least here in NYC) but were not the instigators.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter (new as of 2021)


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 26,864
Location: temperate zone

26 Jul 2021, 5:16 pm

I agree. Too busy. Too many colors. And includes symbolism that is irrelevant to the cause it represents.

In fact it rivals the flag of Milwaukee Wisconsin in awefulness. :lol:

The flag of Milwaukee also has too much going on on it, but at least the excessive symbolism is of things that do pertain to Milwaukee. Much of this pride flag in question has tangential symbolism (like race) that doesnt pertain at all.

Move the slider up to about eleven minutes in to see the Milwaukee flag.



SabbraCadabra
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,032
Location: Michigan

27 Jul 2021, 12:30 am

It needs puzzle pieces and peace signs.


_________________
he had a lot to say, he had a lot of nothing to say
we'll miss him