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VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 10:11 am

An excellent commentary on the hypocrisy surrounding cancel culture on both the left and the right.


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FleaOfTheChill
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30 Jun 2021, 2:31 pm

I'm a genX-er. Maybe that has something to do with my stand on this kind of thing. I grew up being outraged by censorship. It made me nuts. And these days, it still does. It's weird to me, over the last however many years, I have listened to people in my generation, people who used to be against censorship, become the ones trying to censor others in speech and actions... but only when it went against what they believed in. I've tried to call them on it, but they refuse to hear me out. I become the enemy. I get confused.

I agree with what she was saying about all that... people being for or against censorship/canceling when it suits them. I fail to understand how people can pick and choose. You either back it or you don't. You don't have to agree with what is being done or said, but don't damn it then praise it when it suddenly becomes convenient. That sort of hypocrisy irks me.

My little rant aside, nice video. Thanks for posting. I enjoyed it.



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30 Jun 2021, 4:11 pm

YouTube commentary is not evidence.

You might be better off to never let YouTube videos do your thinking for you.


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Redd_Kross
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30 Jun 2021, 4:22 pm

This is a massively complicated area.

On the one hand it would be great if everyone could simply say what they wanted. But unfortunately there are plenty of people out there who want to watch the world burn.

I don't like censorship but at the same time I don't like people spreading horror and nastiness either. So where should we draw the line?

Also, what's better? Overt censorship that's clearly and blatantly practiced, or covert censorship through ideological control and social pressure?

America likes to think of itself as the land of the free but is actually very, very restricted when it comes to freedom of speech. Good luck if you are an atheist or a genuine left-winger, for example. There's a lot of "freedom" that simply amounts to being free to comply with the dominant culture, or else.



VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 4:30 pm

FleaOfTheChill wrote:
I'm a genX-er. Maybe that has something to do with my stand on this kind of thing. I grew up being outraged by censorship. It made me nuts. And these days, it still does. It's weird to me, over the last however many years, I have listened to people in my generation, people who used to be against censorship, become the ones trying to censor others in speech and actions... but only when it went against what they believed in. I've tried to call them on it, but they refuse to hear me out. I become the enemy. I get confused.

I agree with what she was saying about all that... people being for or against censorship/canceling when it suits them. I fail to understand how people can pick and choose. You either back it or you don't. You don't have to agree with what is being done or said, but don't damn it then praise it when it suddenly becomes convenient. That sort of hypocrisy irks me.

My little rant aside, nice video. Thanks for posting. I enjoyed it.


You really can't "pick and choose." That's what they don't seem to understand. It also shows a poor understanding of the First Amendment history. I invite anyone to show me where limiting speech ever led to anything good. Once it starts, it never stops.

Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the content.


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VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 4:32 pm

Redd_Kross wrote:
This is a massively complicated area.

On the one hand it would be great if everyone could simply say what they wanted. But unfortunately there are plenty of people out there who want to watch the world burn.

I don't like censorship but at the same time I don't like people spreading horror and nastiness either. So where should we draw the line?

Also, what's better? Overt censorship that's clearly and blatantly practiced, or covert censorship through ideological control and social pressure?

America likes to think of itself as the land of the free but is actually very, very restricted when it comes to freedom of speech. Good luck if you are an atheist or a genuine left-winger, for example. There's a lot of "freedom" that simply amounts to being free to comply with the dominant culture, or else.


We draw the line where the First Amendment tells us we draw it.


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IsabellaLinton
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30 Jun 2021, 4:45 pm

So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?



Fnord
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30 Jun 2021, 4:50 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?


Image


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IsabellaLinton
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30 Jun 2021, 4:57 pm

Are there cancel-cancelling-cancel-culture culturalists, too?



VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 5:12 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?


Well, who gets to decide the "cultural reasons?" The people doing the censoring are the same people who have long ago bought and paid for our government. They go after anyone who has a narrative that is contrary to the political establishment -- especially if you're anti-war.


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VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 5:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
YouTube commentary is not evidence.

You might be better off to never let YouTube videos do your thinking for you.


Go troll elsewhere


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IsabellaLinton
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30 Jun 2021, 5:16 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?


Well, who gets to decide the "cultural reasons?" The people doing the censoring are the same people who have long ago bought and paid for our government. They go after anyone who has a narrative that is contrary to the political establishment -- especially if you're anti-war.


I agree with you 100% I'm staunchly anti-censorship, in any form.



VegetableMan
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30 Jun 2021, 5:18 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?


Well, who gets to decide the "cultural reasons?" The people doing the censoring are the same people who have long ago bought and paid for our government. They go after anyone who has a narrative that is contrary to the political establishment -- especially if you're anti-war.


I agree with you 100% I'm staunchly anti-censorship, in any form.


Great minds think alike!


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IsabellaLinton
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30 Jun 2021, 5:21 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
So wait.

They're cancelling cancel culture because culture shouldn't be cancelled unless it needs to be cancelled for cultural reasons?


Well, who gets to decide the "cultural reasons?" The people doing the censoring are the same people who have long ago bought and paid for our government. They go after anyone who has a narrative that is contrary to the political establishment -- especially if you're anti-war.


I agree with you 100% I'm staunchly anti-censorship, in any form.


Great minds think alike!


... and great minds shouldn't be censored.



Redd_Kross
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30 Jun 2021, 6:02 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
... and great minds shouldn't be censored.

This is the inherent contradiction of the debate.

Yes, freedom of speech can be essential to uphold democracy, reveal corruption, capture con artists etc. etc.

But at the same time freedom of speech can mean children, vulnerable adults and the elderly get bombarded by scams, lies, political propaganda, threats, insults, and footage of things like child abuse, rape, beastiality and necrophilia.

So some limits are inevitable. But then it becomes a battle of wills over what's acceptable and what isn't. Which much of the time hinges on personal values regarding "decency" but can also become a game of double bluff between the truth seekers and those with something to hide.

Hiding behind the law doesn't help because the same laws that protect us from the worst excesses of society can also hide genuine wrong-doing. And likewise laws designed to open up the corrupt to investigation can also cause problems for the innocent, and expose others to things they'd rather not see.

The OP seems to have a particular bee in his bonnet about this issue, and keeps bringing it up, but there's no clean resolution available here. I'd like to live in a much more open, honest but also accountable society. At the same time I don't want to be slandered, fall victim to crooks, have democracy hijacked by those seeking to deliberately derail it with lies and half truths, or have anyone exposed to snuff movies.

Censorship is a balancing act, always has been, always will be. It's normally hijacked by people who think their unique view of the world should be reflected in the information they're exposed to, but isn't that just as dangerous as being exposed to everything? The problem with all this is, when you're in the right then some rules make perfect sense, but when you're in the wrong they make things worse. But then everyone has a different idea of what's wrong and what's right, when we're talking about everyday issues like racism, sexism, corruption, misleading advertising, political bias and so forth.

You'd hope it woud be clearer cut with things like torture and sexual violence, but even here it seems to be difficult to reach consensus.



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30 Jun 2021, 6:43 pm

^Our Democracy was already hijacked a long time ago by the corporate donor class. You seem to not care about that at all. That is, actually the crux of this issue. The control of information.


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