Criminal charges for trump org - cfo cuffed & perp walked!

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Fnord
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02 Jul 2021, 7:00 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Fnord wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
So basically, you don't give a s**t about this country. All your rhetoric is just BS, yes? If you cared about this country, you might to oay attention to the current administration and what they are up to. You might want to speak out against Biden dropping bombs on a foriegn country without Congressional approval. You might want to speak out against the fact that he has backed away from all his campaign promises. Gosh! You certainly had a lot to say about Trump's misdeeds and crimes. Why don't you have that much passion now? I'm curious. It's interesting that you have a link in your signature to Trump's crimes. How about expanding that to Obama's crimes. How about expanding that to George W. Bush's crimes? How about expanding that to Bill Clinton's crimes?How about expanding that to Reagan's crimes?
I will leave that up to you -- since you are so certain that crimes have been committed -- just be sure to cite valid evidence to support your claims, and not any more of those off-the-wall YouTube videos or any more comic-book "science".
Oh, Lord! Do you really need citations to prove that Biden bombed Syria? Do you really need citations to prove that Obama started five new wars in the ME? Do you really need citations to prove Bush lied about Iraq? Holy s**t! Everything I've mentioned can be verified through corporate media!
This thread is supposed to be about Donald Trump and the crimes he and his followers committed. Do try to keep up with the rest of us.


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Fnord
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02 Jul 2021, 7:04 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Holy s**t! Everything I've mentioned can be verified through corporate media!
You mean the biased corporate media that we're not supposed to trust? So now we ARE supposed to trust them? Dat fake outage is almost convincing. Try it again, but with feeling...
Strange how some people despise the "biased corporate media" until it publishes something they agree with.


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02 Jul 2021, 7:10 pm

CD's argument appeared to be that Cosby has already served more than the minimum sentence and that the evidence used was inadmissible so there's no longer a conviction.

I agree with you that Cosby is a rapist who should have been tried and convicted ages ago. That said, they have no grounds on which to hold him because of how the conviction was secured. No one ever mentioned Cosby's race as relevant to why he's been allowed to walk free.

I'm disappointed that Cosby can't be further held accountable, but even the most positive posts about that outcome haven't been what you're portraying them as.


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02 Jul 2021, 8:51 pm

Don't get too excited.

White collar criminals like these can hire good attorneys, and seem to fair much better than blue collar criminals.


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03 Jul 2021, 6:16 am

Cleaned up now by another mod so reopening it...


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03 Jul 2021, 6:30 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Reminder - there are better ways of expressing disagreement than by making snarky, attacky posts - and now the thread has been cleaned up I expect to see no more of it.


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QuantumChemist
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03 Jul 2021, 9:04 am

Fnord wrote:
Even though prosecutors still need to provide proof of what is described as "willful conduct", it will not be difficult to establish that Weisselberg lived rent-free for years in an apartment paid for by his employer, or that the Trump Organization also paid for his grandchildren's tuition and the leases on his and his wife's Mercedes.  All of this is clearly income and the tax returns show it was never reported as such.

It seems obvious that the Trump Organization and Weisselberg conspired to hide income paid to Weisselberg in the form of free rent, vehicles, and tuition for his family members.  Internal Trump Organization records documented these expensive perks as compensation, but Weisselberg never reported any of the benefits as income on his taxes.

The Trump Organization is also accused of undervaluation of properties in order to evade taxes.

The charges brought against the Trump Organization are said to be part of the "first wave of indictments".  I hope that Trump lives long enough to be perp-walked in handcuffs in front of both the public and the media he so deeply despises.


The FEDs are hoping that they can get Weisselberg to flip on Donald Trump. He had access to all of his records because that was his role for Trump’s organization. I do not know how they can get him to flip, as he is so embedded into the business dealings to the point of going down with the ship. At some point, he may decide to save his own skin, but I doubt it.

If you can remember US history, Al Capone went to prison on tax evasion charges, not murder. Capone had people murdered as a crime boss, but the FEDs had a hard time directly linking him to those crimes. His hands were clean of direct evidence. So the Untouchables got ahold of his cooked books and proved that he committed tax crimes instead, the start of the RICO act. It could be the plan that the FEDs will use to put Trump away while they investigate election fraud charges in other states. Trump’s organization will fall into the same category as the mafia under those terms using RICO.

All of his money that he “earned” will either go to lawyers to defend him or to the government in the form of fines. The properties he has deeds to will likely be seized if he is found guilty of tax charges. However most of his property is leased, so it will likely go back to the original titled owner.



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03 Jul 2021, 9:49 am

My apologies for going off the rails. I am just full of rage, right now, over so much focus on a bad symptom of the disease we are completely ignoring.


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03 Jul 2021, 10:16 am

^ Thank you, that is appreciated.


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Fnord
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03 Jul 2021, 11:08 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
The FEDs are hoping that they can get Weisselberg to flip on Donald Trump...
I am familiar with the Capone case, and I sincerely hope the same strategy is effective against Trump & Co.


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03 Jul 2021, 11:17 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Even though prosecutors still need to provide proof of what is described as "willful conduct", it will not be difficult to establish that Weisselberg lived rent-free for years in an apartment paid for by his employer, or that the Trump Organization also paid for his grandchildren's tuition and the leases on his and his wife's Mercedes.  All of this is clearly income and the tax returns show it was never reported as such.

It seems obvious that the Trump Organization and Weisselberg conspired to hide income paid to Weisselberg in the form of free rent, vehicles, and tuition for his family members.  Internal Trump Organization records documented these expensive perks as compensation, but Weisselberg never reported any of the benefits as income on his taxes.

The Trump Organization is also accused of undervaluation of properties in order to evade taxes.

The charges brought against the Trump Organization are said to be part of the "first wave of indictments".  I hope that Trump lives long enough to be perp-walked in handcuffs in front of both the public and the media he so deeply despises.


The FEDs are hoping that they can get Weisselberg to flip on Donald Trump. He had access to all of his records because that was his role for Trump’s organization. I do not know how they can get him to flip, as he is so embedded into the business dealings to the point of going down with the ship. At some point, he may decide to save his own skin, but I doubt it.

If you can remember US history, Al Capone went to prison on tax evasion charges, not murder. Capone had people murdered as a crime boss, but the FEDs had a hard time directly linking him to those crimes. His hands were clean of direct evidence. So the Untouchables got ahold of his cooked books and proved that he committed tax crimes instead, the start of the RICO act. It could be the plan that the FEDs will use to put Trump away while they investigate election fraud charges in other states. Trump’s organization will fall into the same category as the mafia under those terms using RICO.

All of his money that he “earned” will either go to lawyers to defend him or to the government in the form of fines. The properties he has deeds to will likely be seized if he is found guilty of tax charges. However most of his property is leased, so it will likely go back to the original titled owner.



I can't find it, but there was some white haired ex-FBI guy or something that's a reporter now who said in an interview a few years ago that the trump org will be RICO'd and picked apart and sold off over a course of probably decades, leaving trump and his family poor losers. There are many other much more recent video results on google that say RICO charges and investigations are likely. It's gonna be awesome. 8)


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03 Jul 2021, 4:31 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Even though prosecutors still need to provide proof of what is described as "willful conduct", it will not be difficult to establish that Weisselberg lived rent-free for years in an apartment paid for by his employer, or that the Trump Organization also paid for his grandchildren's tuition and the leases on his and his wife's Mercedes.  All of this is clearly income and the tax returns show it was never reported as such.

It seems obvious that the Trump Organization and Weisselberg conspired to hide income paid to Weisselberg in the form of free rent, vehicles, and tuition for his family members.  Internal Trump Organization records documented these expensive perks as compensation, but Weisselberg never reported any of the benefits as income on his taxes.

The Trump Organization is also accused of undervaluation of properties in order to evade taxes.

The charges brought against the Trump Organization are said to be part of the "first wave of indictments".  I hope that Trump lives long enough to be perp-walked in handcuffs in front of both the public and the media he so deeply despises.


The FEDs are hoping that they can get Weisselberg to flip on Donald Trump. He had access to all of his records because that was his role for Trump’s organization. I do not know how they can get him to flip, as he is so embedded into the business dealings to the point of going down with the ship. At some point, he may decide to save his own skin, but I doubt it.

If you can remember US history, Al Capone went to prison on tax evasion charges, not murder. Capone had people murdered as a crime boss, but the FEDs had a hard time directly linking him to those crimes. His hands were clean of direct evidence. So the Untouchables got ahold of his cooked books and proved that he committed tax crimes instead, the start of the RICO act. It could be the plan that the FEDs will use to put Trump away while they investigate election fraud charges in other states. Trump’s organization will fall into the same category as the mafia under those terms using RICO.

All of his money that he “earned” will either go to lawyers to defend him or to the government in the form of fines. The properties he has deeds to will likely be seized if he is found guilty of tax charges. However most of his property is leased, so it will likely go back to the original titled owner.



I can't find it, but there was some white haired ex-FBI guy or something that's a reporter now who said in an interview a few years ago that the trump org will be RICO'd and picked apart and sold off over a course of probably decades, leaving trump and his family poor losers. There are many other much more recent video results on google that say RICO charges and investigations are likely. It's gonna be awesome. 8)


I was talking to an accountant friend of mine about this issue and she reminded me that there are separate RICOs, at state and federal levels. She worked for the feds on a large RICO case decades ago. The ones currently being charged are at the state level. It can be upgraded to the federal level later on if any of them are found guilty. The fines and prison times become much larger at the federal level. Since Donald Trump is no longer president, he has lost that “trump” card to block prosecution. Some of the federal RICO charges have prison times up to 800 years per charge, but I seriously doubt he would get stuck with one of those ones. Needless to say, he will be in court for the rest of his life even if he does not go to prison.



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03 Jul 2021, 6:02 pm

QuantumChemist wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
QuantumChemist wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Even though prosecutors still need to provide proof of what is described as "willful conduct", it will not be difficult to establish that Weisselberg lived rent-free for years in an apartment paid for by his employer, or that the Trump Organization also paid for his grandchildren's tuition and the leases on his and his wife's Mercedes.  All of this is clearly income and the tax returns show it was never reported as such.

It seems obvious that the Trump Organization and Weisselberg conspired to hide income paid to Weisselberg in the form of free rent, vehicles, and tuition for his family members.  Internal Trump Organization records documented these expensive perks as compensation, but Weisselberg never reported any of the benefits as income on his taxes.

The Trump Organization is also accused of undervaluation of properties in order to evade taxes.

The charges brought against the Trump Organization are said to be part of the "first wave of indictments".  I hope that Trump lives long enough to be perp-walked in handcuffs in front of both the public and the media he so deeply despises.


The FEDs are hoping that they can get Weisselberg to flip on Donald Trump. He had access to all of his records because that was his role for Trump’s organization. I do not know how they can get him to flip, as he is so embedded into the business dealings to the point of going down with the ship. At some point, he may decide to save his own skin, but I doubt it.

If you can remember US history, Al Capone went to prison on tax evasion charges, not murder. Capone had people murdered as a crime boss, but the FEDs had a hard time directly linking him to those crimes. His hands were clean of direct evidence. So the Untouchables got ahold of his cooked books and proved that he committed tax crimes instead, the start of the RICO act. It could be the plan that the FEDs will use to put Trump away while they investigate election fraud charges in other states. Trump’s organization will fall into the same category as the mafia under those terms using RICO.

All of his money that he “earned” will either go to lawyers to defend him or to the government in the form of fines. The properties he has deeds to will likely be seized if he is found guilty of tax charges. However most of his property is leased, so it will likely go back to the original titled owner.



I can't find it, but there was some white haired ex-FBI guy or something that's a reporter now who said in an interview a few years ago that the trump org will be RICO'd and picked apart and sold off over a course of probably decades, leaving trump and his family poor losers. There are many other much more recent video results on google that say RICO charges and investigations are likely. It's gonna be awesome. 8)


I was talking to an accountant friend of mine about this issue and she reminded me that there are separate RICOs, at state and federal levels. She worked for the feds on a large RICO case decades ago. The ones currently being charged are at the state level. It can be upgraded to the federal level later on if any of them are found guilty. The fines and prison times become much larger at the federal level. Since Donald Trump is no longer president, he has lost that “trump” card to block prosecution. Some of the federal RICO charges have prison times up to 800 years per charge, but I seriously doubt he would get stuck with one of those ones. Needless to say, he will be in court for the rest of his life even if he does not go to prison.


I can't speak to the RICO aspect, but I can speak to the tax.

Here's the thing: from what I've observed during my career, taking a tax shot at most businesses is easy. It's a common game to stretch the truth and hide a few personal perks, or employee perks. Or not "hide," but maybe "not realize" that created taxable income on the other side. And then there are the honest, innocent mistakes. Point being, look hard enough, and SOMETHING can be found.

The IRS doesn't have the budget to look that hard at every business, and over time businesses can get complacent, and stop trying so hard to comply to the law. And every so often the IRS will come down hard on one to set an example and scare the rest.

Although this time it isn't the IRS.

I don't feel Trump is completely wrong in pointing out that none of this would be happening if it wasn't for his involvement in politics. But because he is a business man, unlike with a career politician, he's left a quite a treasure trove for investigators to find. The crimes are real, just, well, stuff that men like Trump and his CFO truly believe everyone does and truly believe everyone gets away with. Or, if caught, it will be settled with some penalties and that will be that. While the former was never true, of course, the later usually has been. The presumption it will be no big deal has trapped plenty of people before Trump, and it is likely to get Trump now.

I do not think his CFO will turn, although I do think that is the goal here. I find the idea overly hopeful on the part of the government. The man has been loyal too long and profited too well to risk Trump's ire. You don't stay that close to someone like Trump that long without truly being loyal. He'll accept he had a good run of it and go down like a martyr.

But they will get something they can pin on Trump. They always do in these cases. The problem is, it will likely be something conservatives will be able to claim most people wouldn't go to jail over. I think ... Trump has been such an usual danger to Democracy that most of us don't even know the half of it, and I don't know if the current game is the right way to end that threat, although perhaps they believe it is the only way.


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QuantumChemist
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04 Jul 2021, 9:34 am

Don Jr. has accidentally helped the prosecution side with his Facebook comments yesterday, saying that his dad did pay for tuition for grandchildren of his accountant.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-t ... 186f500d12

It reminds me of an old saying: With friends like this, who needs enemies?



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04 Jul 2021, 10:15 am

QuantumChemist wrote:
Don Jr. has accidentally helped the prosecution side with his Facebook comments yesterday, saying that his dad did pay for tuition for grandchildren of his accountant.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-t ... 186f500d12

It reminds me of an old saying: With friends like this, who needs enemies?


Aptly named for his old man, IMO.. seeing as what Rex Tillerson called djt applies to djt jr. just the same. :lol:


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04 Jul 2021, 9:39 pm

It gets even better. Donald Trump has now basically admitted it in comments at a rally. He says roughly “How could anyone know what is taxable income?”. Oh, I don’t know, maybe ask the IRS (sarcasm). My accountant friend ROFLAO when she read his comments. She deals with very large corporations and has to watch out for those specific issues with them.

https://news.yahoo.com/donald-trump-app ... 57943.html

Playing ignorant of tax laws will only get you so far. Fifteen years of it will get you some major fines and long jail time.