My answers to Snowflake test: What do you think?

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magz
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07 Jul 2021, 5:45 pm

Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
I pretty much always kiss it. To be fair the people I work for are pretty relaxed people if you do the hours. They even let me verbally abuse them which is many an Aspies dream. Asking this one particular haggard looking colleague when he's planning on dying so I can steal all his tools is just something I do on a regular basis along with saying I want to abduct the managers dogs. I also tell the draftsman he's an ugly grotesque freak and his life will never amount to anything.

I would probably be the worst employee any lefty woke company could ever hire. I would end up with a harassment accusation within my first hour of working for them........which I will be very proud of.

Exceuse me, are you just bragging about being an as*hole? 8O

Nope it's just what working in blue collar jobs entirely around men is like and they give it back as hard as you throw it. It's not like an office or shop at all. Yesterday everyone was imitating the noises of whales. It's weird.

Oh, these climates.
Office culture has it too, maybe in a bit different forms like gross sense of humor culminating for some reason on Thursdays.


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07 Jul 2021, 5:54 pm

magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
magz wrote:
Nades wrote:
I pretty much always kiss it. To be fair the people I work for are pretty relaxed people if you do the hours. They even let me verbally abuse them which is many an Aspies dream. Asking this one particular haggard looking colleague when he's planning on dying so I can steal all his tools is just something I do on a regular basis along with saying I want to abduct the managers dogs. I also tell the draftsman he's an ugly grotesque freak and his life will never amount to anything.

I would probably be the worst employee any lefty woke company could ever hire. I would end up with a harassment accusation within my first hour of working for them........which I will be very proud of.

Exceuse me, are you just bragging about being an as*hole? 8O

Nope it's just what working in blue collar jobs entirely around men is like and they give it back as hard as you throw it. It's not like an office or shop at all. Yesterday everyone was imitating the noises of whales. It's weird.

Oh, these climates.
Office culture has it too, maybe in a bit different forms like gross sense of humor culminating for some reason on Thursdays.


It's as much as a game as a time killer. You insult someone in a grossly over the top manner and they need to think of a good come back. The more creative the better.

The guy I keep asking for the date of his death made a noose out of rope in return once which was hilarious.

I imagine i would be fired in a couple of hours doing the same in a clicky office environment.

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magz
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07 Jul 2021, 5:57 pm

Such jokes go only between well-proven friends in my envitonment. I actually called my best friend "old hag" and she did the same to me but you don't do it to strangers.

I think the right word would be "barter", not "abuse".


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07 Jul 2021, 6:47 pm

magz wrote:
[...] I think the right word would be "barter", not "abuse".
Actually, the word is "Banter", not "Barter".

Banter: an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

Barter: to trade by exchange of commodities rather than by the use of money.


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07 Jul 2021, 9:26 pm

Here's the thing DW, Fnord, Nades, and others if I have to pretend to be something that I'm not to become employed I'd rather be committed and/or considered incompetent.

It's not worth it and guess what if they catch you being deceptive like that they will respect you even less.

Fortunately, I'm employed in China so all of these stupid personality tests and stupid requirements American employers have now is a moot point for me.

I think though if more and more people started saying no to arbitrary and capricious requirements that employers have these days and it was possible for them to do so I think things would change fast.

My advice is if you can work overseas as an expat. It is way better and the cost for things like health care and food is cheaper. Or, if you can do your own business. Let me put it to you all this way. I had to get three different prescriptions one time in the UAE (when I was there for a time) and the total for all three was 100 AED I believe which is about $40.00. And, that's without insurance.



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08 Jul 2021, 1:10 am

Cubedemon, I think fit is really important for employees, for them to feel good in a job. A lot of responses in this thread really do confirm that. But I don’t think that sample test you posted is a good way for companies to find out who fits best. And I think there is enough variety in the USA that people don’t have to go overseas … unless they want to.

I’ve done a lot of hiring myself. You have to find the key ingredients for who will like it there, and direct the interview to give as much of that information to the potential employee as possible, while also asking questions to gain insight into their talents. I was never afraid to tell someone I wasn’t sure they could be happy. If they are good, they can get a job offer anyway, but in those cases they would have figured out I was right and will turn it down. Anyway. I guess we all have our own ways of solving the fit issue.


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magz
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08 Jul 2021, 2:37 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
[...] I think the right word would be "barter", not "abuse".
Actually, the word is "Banter", not "Barter".

Banter: an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery.

Barter: to trade by exchange of commodities rather than by the use of money.

Thanks :oops:
I was well past my bedtime when typing it.

BTW, I'm not really comfortable in banter culture but I can survive in it and even build some position - a side effect of growing up with brothers.


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08 Jul 2021, 9:15 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Cubedemon, I think fit is really important for employees, for them to feel good in a job. A lot of responses in this thread really do confirm that. But I don’t think that sample test you posted is a good way for companies to find out who fits best. And I think there is enough variety in the USA that people don’t have to go overseas … unless they want to.

I’ve done a lot of hiring myself. You have to find the key ingredients for who will like it there, and direct the interview to give as much of that information to the potential employee as possible, while also asking questions to gain insight into their talents. I was never afraid to tell someone I wasn’t sure they could be happy. If they are good, they can get a job offer anyway, but in those cases they would have figured out I was right and will turn it down. Anyway. I guess we all have our own ways of solving the fit issue.


If there is enough variety as you claim then why do black people have to do a bunch of code switching to meet the standards of being "Professional?"" If there were variety as you claim you would not see black people teaching others that they have to code switch.

Do you want to know why you say what you say? Because you've never experienced issues with employers as a hole for being true to yourself. You don't have that experience. Would you truthfully get it? You are able to fit into what is considered being a "professional." Others are not so fortunate. They have a more difficult time.

Can your son be his true and natural autistic self at the workplace? How many employers will accept this? I bet not very many. Can you understand your son. You can understand the theory, yes but can you truthfully understand his struggle if you're not autistic and don't have all of the collective experiences of being autistic?

Same thing with being black. Can you truthfully understand the black experience and the autistic experience in the USA without being either one? How can you?

I humbly disagree with what you are saying.



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12 Jul 2021, 8:05 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Cubedemon, I think fit is really important for employees, for them to feel good in a job. A lot of responses in this thread really do confirm that. But I don’t think that sample test you posted is a good way for companies to find out who fits best. And I think there is enough variety in the USA that people don’t have to go overseas … unless they want to.

I’ve done a lot of hiring myself. You have to find the key ingredients for who will like it there, and direct the interview to give as much of that information to the potential employee as possible, while also asking questions to gain insight into their talents. I was never afraid to tell someone I wasn’t sure they could be happy. If they are good, they can get a job offer anyway, but in those cases they would have figured out I was right and will turn it down. Anyway. I guess we all have our own ways of solving the fit issue.


If there is enough variety as you claim then why do black people have to do a bunch of code switching to meet the standards of being "Professional?"" If there were variety as you claim you would not see black people teaching others that they have to code switch.

Do you want to know why you say what you say? Because you've never experienced issues with employers as a hole for being true to yourself. You don't have that experience. Would you truthfully get it? You are able to fit into what is considered being a "professional." Others are not so fortunate. They have a more difficult time.

Can your son be his true and natural autistic self at the workplace? How many employers will accept this? I bet not very many. Can you understand your son. You can understand the theory, yes but can you truthfully understand his struggle if you're not autistic and don't have all of the collective experiences of being autistic?

Same thing with being black. Can you truthfully understand the black experience and the autistic experience in the USA without being either one? How can you?

I humbly disagree with what you are saying.


I should have worded differently because I realize that not everyone will be able to find their fit, and the degrees of difficulty to get there are naturally going to vary. But I honestly believe that most people, including with ASD, can if they know what to look for and are willing to invest time. Very few people find the right fit on the first or second or third try. It's a process. You have to crack a lot of eggs and interview companies just as hard or harder than they interview you.

You are wrong to think I haven't had the experience of being rejected for who I was. I have. All my early work experience was plagued by it, and I've mentored many younger associates who were plagued by it. It may not all have been exactly the same as many of our members with ASD face (although I could be ASD, we've never figured it out, and those prior associates could be ASD, it was not well on the radar back then), but I didn't come to the conclusion that "fit" is everything because I hadn't seen giant issues with it firsthand everywhere I went. The place I currently work is known for its "unique" mix of personalities, and we have at least one other employee who I am absolutely convinced is on the spectrum.

The advantage I had was that I learned what my strengths were and focused on selling those. I learned what I did not like in an employer. I learned not to see it as rejection when I didn't get a job, but as lack of fit. I learned to see myself as selecting a job more than as them selecting me. I see places I know I will never fit in more than I see ones I believe I can thrive in. I came to understand my own worth despite difficulties with fit that kept some previous employers from valuing it.

Dealing with race issues will complicate everything, because there are places someone would fit if it weren't for the matter of a racism based culture. That experience I can't really relate to, even though I have experienced a minor amount of paper based prejudice because my name doesn't look Caucasian.

My son has been fortunate to be accepted wherever he has worked so far, but I do understand that he seems to have always enjoyed a likeability factor among the NT population that isn't common for someone everyone sees as being so unusual. His larger barrier is in pushing through the job hunting process. That is not something that suits him, and the process of finding a career job has been overwhelming. He has a job, but its a "student" job, a continuation of a job he had during summers while finishing his college degree, and it has no benefits. He also feels very uncomfortable trying to sell what we believe are his strengths, because he doesn't see it as a true picture. In that respect, I think he does fit your points: my husband and I are trained to believe that if he approaches a cover letter the way he wants to, no one will look at his resume. But I've been thinking my husband and I have made a mistake there. I've suggested to him that he start ignoring us and do it his way. The worst that can happen is that he doesn't get an interview, which is exactly what has been happening already.

I think, for purposes of this discussion, the truth is probably more in the middle of what you believe and what I believe. I would encourage people struggling to do both: focus on figuring out their fit needs better and consider going overseas.


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19 Jul 2021, 7:37 pm

Quote:
I should have worded differently because I realize that not everyone will be able to find their fit, and the degrees of difficulty to get there are naturally going to vary. But I honestly believe that most people, including with ASD, can if they know what to look for and are willing to invest time. Very few people find the right fit on the first or second or third try. It's a process. You have to crack a lot of eggs and interview companies just as hard or harder than they interview you.


a. Well, if you look at the bureau of labor statistics there are more people for all of the age categories who are disabled and who are not in the labor force.

b. No matter what the world tells you belief and faith does not trump what is logically true. In other words it doesn't matter what you believe but can you explain logically and give concrete evidence that most people including with ASD can if they know what to look for and are willing to invest time?

c. Do you think an ASD person or others with disabilities are going to be able to "crack a lot of eggs and interview companies.." especially if they don't know what to ask or have major anxiety issues? How well do you think this will work?

d. I have a better idea. Instead of forcing disabled folks especially those with ASDs to go through a grueling interview in which one has to deceive, exaggerate and pretend to be something he is not why not come up with alternatives then the whole working 9 to 5.



Quote:
The advantage I had was that I learned what my strengths were and focused on selling those. I learned what I did not like in an employer. I learned not to see it as rejection when I didn't get a job, but as lack of fit. I learned to see myself as selecting a job more than as them selecting me. I see places I know I will never fit in more than I see ones I believe I can thrive in. I came to understand my own worth despite difficulties with fit that kept some previous employers from valuing it.


a. That's assuming that what I consider a strength others consider a strength as well. Well, the problem is others may see a green world and I see a red world.

Example: A lot of people in the USA seems to have this idea that one's attitude is the building blocks of reality. Even if one's negative attitude is based in logic and reason. A positive attitude valued more the reason itself and this is what a number of people in the USA accept to be true and this includes the workplace. Truth is my attitude does not affect the position of the planets and how they revolve around the sun and rotate on their axis. Reality trumps how I feel.

Another Example: I tried to apply to a job working at Staples working in their computer service or geek squad. One of the questions asked in their stupid personality tests in which was like reading the handbook from the recently deceased from BeatleJuice do I believe that life is not fair? And, there was no way I could answer yes or no because it doesn't matter what I believe or don't believe. Reality is independent of my thoughts, wishes, hopes and dreams. So, the question was new age nonsense.

I don't fit in their world one iota. That's why I had to leave.

b. There are certain interview questions that are universal. Example: Why do you want to work here. But, what if one doesn't see working or getting a job as a desire but more as a duty? I feel it is my duty to work and/or somehow do a business. I'd rather play games and read fanfiction. I'd rather relax by the ocean or swim in the pool. Those are some of my wants and desires. I'd rather do that then work anywhere.

But, I know I do stuff because it needs to be done not because I desire to do it. The question which a number of employers ask forces a person to tell a bald faced lie. Employers don't like it when you lie but force a candidate to lie by the nature of the question. What employers want is a person to have all of this energy and extraversion and to love their job and if he doesn't to pretend that he does? Again, employers and people in general want you to fake happiness and act like everything is wonderful 24/7. That's deceptive and absurd.



Quote:
My son has been fortunate to be accepted wherever he has worked so far, but I do understand that he seems to have always enjoyed a likeability factor among the NT population that isn't common for someone everyone sees as being so unusual. His larger barrier is in pushing through the job hunting process. That is not something that suits him, and the process of finding a career job has been overwhelming. He has a job, but its a "student" job, a continuation of a job he had during summers while finishing his college degree, and it has no benefits. He also feels very uncomfortable trying to sell what we believe are his strengths, because he doesn't see it as a true picture. In that respect, I think he does fit your points: my husband and I are trained to believe that if he approaches a cover letter the way he wants to, no one will look at his resume. But I've been thinking my husband and I have made a mistake there. I've suggested to him that he start ignoring us and do it his way. The worst that can happen is that he doesn't get an interview, which is exactly what has been happening already.


I've asked you this before. What is the plan that you have in place if you he is unable to find a fit? And, what is the criteria that you will go by to know that it is time to throw in the towel? When does trying reach the point of diminishing returns? This is the problem with our whole you can do it never give up society. When does it become acceptable to truthfully say "I can't" and to quit trying?

Quote:
I think, for purposes of this discussion, the truth is probably more in the middle of what you believe and what I believe. I would encourage people struggling to do both: focus on figuring out their fit needs better and consider going overseas.


And, I would encourage others to quit playing by someone else's game by someone else's rules that they had no vote in and I would encourage parents and other family members to quit forcing their charge into a workplace that they have little to no hope of fitting into. And, I would encourage parents and other family members to quit forcing their charge into a workplace that one has to pretend to be something they're not in order to keep their job.

Another thing: The attitude is pervasive that we're owed nothing. As long as people in the USA have the attitude that no one is owed anything success for those with disabilities goes way down. And, this attitude right here is why I don't think parents should mainstream their children into the workplace especially if that child is trying to seek guidance and can't really get it because one is owed nothing and one is expected to pull himself by his bootstraps.



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21 Jul 2021, 10:28 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
These personality tests are one of the reasons why I left the USA and I am employed in China right now. In China and other countries as far as I know you don't have to take these sorts of tests. Truth is more than likely I will never be employed in the USA.


Maybe it is not that much easy for everybody to find a job in China. In Europe we also have strange personality tests, but at least they do not ask you how you feel about guns.



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21 Jul 2021, 10:37 am

rabo wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
These personality tests are one of the reasons why I left the USA and I am employed in China right now. In China and other countries as far as I know you don't have to take these sorts of tests. Truth is more than likely I will never be employed in the USA.


Maybe it is not that much easy for everybody to find a job in China. In Europe we also have strange personality tests, but at least they do not ask you how you feel about guns.


China is one possibility. And, remember I said "if you are able to or if you can."

Truth is, I had certain things that enabled me to go to China that are beyond my control.



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22 Jul 2021, 5:31 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:

China is one possibility. And, remember I said "if you are able to or if you can."

Truth is, I had certain things that enabled me to go to China that are beyond my control.


OK, I see. Thanks



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25 Jul 2021, 12:18 am

https://www.buzzfeed.com/victoriavoulou ... -corporate

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/people- ... 09556.html

I am even more convinced now that Autistic people don't belong in the corporate world. We don't have the personality for it and it requires a bunch of fakery and deception.

Thanks but no thanks!



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25 Jul 2021, 2:14 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Truth is, I had certain things that enabled me to go to China that are beyond my control.

Heh, now I'm curious, how did you end up there and how do you like it? How does your work look like?



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11 Aug 2021, 1:15 pm

This has to be illegal because you can't discriminate someone based on their political beliefs and before anyone tells me the right wing has been discriminated, yeah they were fired for being racist and stuff. That is not politics.


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