The end of America's era of 'Nation Building'

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King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 3:44 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/biden-a ... istan.html


Maybe Americans need to quit meddling in other countries and work on repairing the mess in our own country? Just a thought.


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VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 3:54 pm

It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


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King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 4:03 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


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VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 4:36 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


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King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 4:57 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly sceptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


The wars will continue until enough Americans rise up and say, "No more!"


Let's just hope we dont wind up fighting amongst ourselves. :heart:


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DW_a_mom
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31 Aug 2021, 5:42 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly skeptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


One problem is that Americans tend to re-elect presidents when there is a security threat facing the nation, so presidents that want to be re-elected have incentive to manufacture a conflict and start war.

Biden has a history of being pretty anti-war (even if he is content spending money to prepare for war). And he's old. But who knows what the political landscape will look like in a year.


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VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 5:56 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
It remains to be seen whether he means what he says. I'm highly skeptical. He has always served the Military Industrial Complex throughout his political career.


Even if he does mean what he says... who's to say the next guy who replaces him in the oval office wont be part of another big mess like this?


One problem is that Americans tend to re-elect presidents when there is a security threat facing the nation, so presidents that want to be re-elected have incentive to manufacture a conflict and start war.

Biden has a history of being pretty anti-war (even if he is content spending money to prepare for war). And he's old. But who knows what the political landscape will look like in a year.


Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


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DW_a_mom
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31 Aug 2021, 6:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


It is my understanding that he was pushing for us to get out of Vietnam long before we did, and has been pushing for us to get out of Afghanistan since 2011, if I have the year right. He has long professed regret about authorizing the wars in the Middle East. What do you have as evidence otherwise?


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cyberdad
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31 Aug 2021, 6:11 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


Hmmm sounds like you hate him whether he engages in war "Biden is a war monger" or if he pulls troops out of Afghanistan "Biden did the wrong thing"

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.



cyberdad
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31 Aug 2021, 6:12 pm

King0fSpades wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/biden-addresses-the-end-of-the-us-war-in-afghanistan.html


Maybe Americans need to quit meddling in other countries and work on repairing the mess in our own country? Just a thought.


This seems to be a positive step in the right direction. First time since 2015 the US has a proper leader.



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31 Aug 2021, 6:19 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


It is my understanding that he was pushing for us to get out of Vietnam long before we did, and has been pushing for us to get out of Afghanistan since 2011, if I have the year right. He has long professed regret about authorizing the wars in the Middle East. What do you have as evidence otherwise?


Expressing regret for the the ME wars doesn't hold much water. As far as the Vietnam War, he was very young at the time. He voted in favor of the Iraq War and he supported all the five wars Obama got us into.

He's already bombed Syria twice and has also bombed Somalia. That doesn't sound particularly anti-war to me.


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King0fSpades
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31 Aug 2021, 6:22 pm

cyberdad wrote:
King0fSpades wrote:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/31/biden-addresses-the-end-of-the-us-war-in-afghanistan.html


Maybe Americans need to quit meddling in other countries and work on repairing the mess in our own country? Just a thought.


This seems to be a positive step in the right direction. First time since 2015 the US has a proper leader.


I still worry about Biden's leadership abilities and while I do think the evacuation process in Afghanistan was a complete blunder I think Biden does have the right idea. I mean why did people expect Americans to just keep sacrificing lives and waste money in that country forever? We were going to have to leave sooner or later...

I think it was a very painful thing for the world to watch but hopefully it will be a step in the right direction for the US. We're having some serious problems in our own country right now and we really need to try and fix them before things get worse.


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VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 6:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


Hmmm sounds like you hate him whether he engages in war "Biden is a war monger" or if he pulls troops out of Afghanistan "Biden did the wrong thing"

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.


You are clueless. Stick to Australian politics.


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cyberdad
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31 Aug 2021, 6:35 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


Hmmm sounds like you hate him whether he engages in war "Biden is a war monger" or if he pulls troops out of Afghanistan "Biden did the wrong thing"

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.


You are clueless. Stick to Australian politics.


You are morphing into the WP three amigos....now there are 4



VegetableMan
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31 Aug 2021, 7:07 pm

cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


Hmmm sounds like you hate him whether he engages in war "Biden is a war monger" or if he pulls troops out of Afghanistan "Biden did the wrong thing"

I'm afraid you can't have it both ways.


You are clueless. Stick to Australian politics.


You are morphing into the WP three amigos....now there are 4


Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about. (I doubt you do either.)


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DW_a_mom
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31 Aug 2021, 7:14 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Biden is anti-war? Are you serious? Can you provide evidence that backs up that claim?


It is my understanding that he was pushing for us to get out of Vietnam long before we did, and has been pushing for us to get out of Afghanistan since 2011, if I have the year right. He has long professed regret about authorizing the wars in the Middle East. What do you have as evidence otherwise?


Expressing regret for the the ME wars doesn't hold much water. As far as the Vietnam War, he was very young at the time. He voted in favor of the Iraq War and he supported all the five wars Obama got us into.

He's already bombed Syria twice and has also bombed Somalia. That doesn't sound particularly anti-war to me.


Sitting in the seat of the presidency changes instincts. Sometimes there doesn’t seem to be any response besides dropping a bomb. There is a difference between leaders who pragmatically follow the recommendations of their military advisors and those that seem eager to prove themselves through war, but it takes being personally close to someone to really know which they are. From what I’ve read, Biden is capable of being the former, but prefers to stay out of war. I haven’t heard anyone suggest he is the later. You feel his track record says differently. I guess that puts us at a stalemate; I don’t think there is any way for either of us to prove where his heart is.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 31 Aug 2021, 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.