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Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 9:29 am

These 11 jobs are expected to shrink most by 2028:

 1) Assemblers and fabricators, including team assemblers.
 2) Retail salespersons.
 3) Office clerks, general.
 4) Secretaries and administrative assistants, except legal, medical and executive.
 5) Customer service representatives.
 6) Cashiers.
 7) Inspectors, testers, sorters, samplers and weighers.
 8) Bookkeeping, accounting and auditing clerks.
 9) Postal service mail carriers.
10) Executive secretaries and executive administrative assistants.
11) Waiters and waitresses.

Source:
 This MLive News Article 

These are all entry-level positions that usually require only a high-school diploma.  Does anyone want to present a case against obtaining a college-level education?



Nades
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16 Sep 2021, 9:36 am

So basically moving things and anything that can be transferred to a database or production line?

I have a doubt as to the level on unemployment this will cause. Someone, somewhere will need to maintain all these machines.

I think during the industrial revolution people were worried about a job massacre occuring. Instead it created more jobs than took apparently.

I feel whatever might replace a job today might follow the same procedure.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 9:42 am

The Industrial Revolution more-or-less forced people to learn skills that the average farmer of the time did not need.  Learning the new skills required workers to "up their game" and either accept on-the-job (OJT) training as apprentices, or attend classes at guild/union halls, trade schools, and even colleges.

Nowadays, people cannot simply drop out of, or graduate from high school and expect to get a job that can support themselves and their families -- higher education is needed, especially in STEM subjects.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 9:50 am

What we need to do is to improve the vocational/"trades" education and opportunities here in the US.

There will always be the need for a carpenter, a roofer, an electrician, a plumber, etc.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 9:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
What we need to do is to improve the vocational/"trades" education and opportunities here in the US.  There will always be the need for a carpenter, a roofer, an electrician, a plumber, etc.
"We" do not need to do anything unless "we" are looking for work -- those who look for work must take the initiative to make themselves marketable to employers.  Otherwise, they risk falling under the general category of temporary workers or "wingnuts" -- employees who are easily hired, easily fired, and essentially indistinguishable from one-another.



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 10:03 am

Of course, people should take the initiative. Obviously.

But it would also be nice if the government were able to inspire conditions whereby tradespeople could have a smoother path to success via their hard work in apprenticeships.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 10:09 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Of course, people should take the initiative. Obviously. But it would also be nice if the government were able to inspire conditions whereby tradespeople could have a smoother path to success via their hard work in apprenticeships.
Oh, gee ... let us get the government involved in yet another activity so that they can insinuate their rules, their regulations, their forms, their snarky bureaucrats, and their obfuscating and delaying red tape into the process ... yes ... yes ... governmental bureaucracy is exactly what we need to make our lives better ...

:roll: NOT!!



kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 10:28 am

I'm not talking about what you're talking about. I'm not talking about thorough governmental intervention.

I'm speaking more of government, unobtrusively, providing the impetus, through some sort of legislation, whereby the path to success is rendered smoother for tradespeople who are not academically-inclined.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 10:30 am

We do not need more legislation; we do not need more laws, more regulations, and more guidelines.

We need more educated people to fill the jobs for which only educated people can qualify.

Also, there is no such thing as "unobtrusive" governmental involvement (unless by "unobtrusive" you mean "nonexistent").  Once the government gets involved in an effort, it insinuates itself throughout every aspect of that effort, slows it down, and raises obstacles to progress.



Last edited by Fnord on 16 Sep 2021, 10:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

kraftiekortie
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16 Sep 2021, 10:32 am

We need a little bit of both, in my opinion.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 10:34 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
We need a little bit of both, in my opinion.
Only two?  I thought all government types did not appreciate anything unless it was in triplicate.



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16 Sep 2021, 12:06 pm

STEM itself doesn't make you immune to unemployment. STEM just correlates with ability to constantly learn the whole time you work, as soon as you stop learning, you are left in the dust. This mindset is what should be adopted in high school education and other fields.



Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 1:26 pm

badRobot wrote:
STEM itself doesn't make you immune to unemployment. STEM just correlates with ability to constantly learn the whole time you work, as soon as you stop learning, you are left in the dust. This mindset is what should be adopted in high school education and other fields.
Yes, "Never stop learning" is the mantra.

In a technological society, a STEM degree betters the odds of getting a job than a HASS degree, and any degree is far better at increasing the odds of acquiring employment than no degree at all.

If ours was a philosophical society instead, the situation between STEM and HASS degrees might be reversed; but having no degree at all would still minimize one's chances for employment.



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16 Sep 2021, 2:07 pm

I've never seen a person with a HASS or whatever degree who's real problem was not having a STEM degree. It's always the mindset, having expectation that businesses supposed to employ you just due to your academic scores and credentials. I've collaborated with dozens and dozens prolific self-taught software developers, coders, 3D-modelers, graphic artists, musicians, writers who have no formal education whatsoever and no one cares.



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16 Sep 2021, 2:10 pm

badRobot wrote:
I've never seen a person with a HASS or whatever degree who's real problem was not having a STEM degree. It's always the mindset, having expectation that businesses supposed to employ you just due to your academic scores and credentials. I've collaborated with dozens and dozens prolific self-taught software developers, coders, 3D-modelers, graphic artists, musicians, writers who have no formal education whatsoever and no one cares.


^^ This!

What’s wrong with taking the back roads?


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Fnord
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16 Sep 2021, 2:14 pm

badRobot wrote:
I've never seen a person with a HASS or whatever degree who's real problem was not having a STEM degree. It's always the mindset, having expectation that businesses supposed to employ you just due to your academic scores and credentials. I've collaborated with dozens and dozens prolific self-taught software developers, coders, 3D-modelers, graphic artists, musicians, writers who have no formal education whatsoever and no one cares.
Yes, results count.  A degree might get your foot in the door, but results always count.