Canada’s trump country is covid-screwed

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DW_a_mom
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26 Sep 2021, 10:13 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
As funeralxempire pointed out, there are groups of far right wing people around the world that are uniting in person and online to spread their poison. I recall reading headlines about some of trump's henchmen attending meetings with far right fringe political groups throughout Europe in their "unite the right," movement. All of this is far more than memes - they're ideals that they want spread, for angry people to get together and elect far right leaders to become authoritarians in a global move to re-ignite white supremacy and anti-immigrant nonsense as melanin-ated humans evacuate uninhabitable areas of the world due to heat/drought/economic reasons. These people want a race war as their legacy.


Scary how many US conservatives seem to be looking at Hungary as a model.


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26 Sep 2021, 10:32 pm

@Robot
If you read all the posts in conjunction (rather than cherry picking one) he (Trump) was actually sending mixed messages, mostly because he was conflating his own opinions with actual health advice. For example not listening to qualified health experts sitting right next to him at press conferences and recommending people try injecting themselves with Lysol (that famously resulted in three people dying).



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27 Sep 2021, 1:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tross wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
But, how can the vaccine protect me better than the armour of faith?

Just to play Devil's Advocate. :nerdy:
Well, anyone who truly understands the bible knows that God is not a personal genie who will simply wipe away tribulations, but someone who will partner with believers who take the necessary real-world steps to ensure the best possible outcome. However, try telling that to people who have made up their mind and believe in this "armour of faith" BS, which amusingly enough, is a common Islamic belief if I understand correctly. :lol:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Huh, that would actually suggest that Trump himself had less to do with the anti vaccine sentiment here in the US than is often portrayed, if the attitude is common to non US conservatives.


Or his influence was more international than we realized ...
This.^ We have a lot of Trump supporters in this country, and since his time in office, there has seemingly been an increase in attitudes associated with that cult.


Luke, the author of Luke's Gospel, was himself a physician, and the Father of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, had said doctors and medicine were gifts from God. In fact, when the German city of Wittenberg had been struck with a plague, Luther and his wife, Katherine, had stayed behind to help care for the sick and dying... and both wore masks!
That's also true. I think the best way to shut down the conversation with these cultists is to ask them to point out which verses of the bible have led them to their conclusions. :roll:



Kraichgauer
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27 Sep 2021, 4:07 am

Tross wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Tross wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
But, how can the vaccine protect me better than the armour of faith?

Just to play Devil's Advocate. :nerdy:
Well, anyone who truly understands the bible knows that God is not a personal genie who will simply wipe away tribulations, but someone who will partner with believers who take the necessary real-world steps to ensure the best possible outcome. However, try telling that to people who have made up their mind and believe in this "armour of faith" BS, which amusingly enough, is a common Islamic belief if I understand correctly. :lol:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Huh, that would actually suggest that Trump himself had less to do with the anti vaccine sentiment here in the US than is often portrayed, if the attitude is common to non US conservatives.


Or his influence was more international than we realized ...
This.^ We have a lot of Trump supporters in this country, and since his time in office, there has seemingly been an increase in attitudes associated with that cult.


Luke, the author of Luke's Gospel, was himself a physician, and the Father of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, had said doctors and medicine were gifts from God. In fact, when the German city of Wittenberg had been struck with a plague, Luther and his wife, Katherine, had stayed behind to help care for the sick and dying... and both wore masks!
That's also true. I think the best way to shut down the conversation with these cultists is to ask them to point out which verses of the bible have led them to their conclusions. :roll:


Most assuredly.


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goldfish21
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27 Sep 2021, 10:57 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
As funeralxempire pointed out, there are groups of far right wing people around the world that are uniting in person and online to spread their poison. I recall reading headlines about some of trump's henchmen attending meetings with far right fringe political groups throughout Europe in their "unite the right," movement. All of this is far more than memes - they're ideals that they want spread, for angry people to get together and elect far right leaders to become authoritarians in a global move to re-ignite white supremacy and anti-immigrant nonsense as melanin-ated humans evacuate uninhabitable areas of the world due to heat/drought/economic reasons. These people want a race war as their legacy.


Scary how many US conservatives seem to be looking at Hungary as a model.


Is this all because of that one tucker carlson clip where he went over to Hungary and praised their authoritarian leader for keeping outsiders out? Other than that "news," clip, I don't know why Americans would take notice of what's going on in Hungary at all.


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funeralxempire
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27 Sep 2021, 11:21 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Is this all because of that one tucker carlson clip where he went over to Hungary and praised their authoritarian leader for keeping outsiders out? Other than that "news," clip, I don't know why Americans would take notice of what's going on in Hungary at all.


No, Orban was a rock star in certain authoritarian right/nationalist circles long before that.


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goldfish21
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27 Sep 2021, 12:22 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Is this all because of that one tucker carlson clip where he went over to Hungary and praised their authoritarian leader for keeping outsiders out? Other than that "news," clip, I don't know why Americans would take notice of what's going on in Hungary at all.


No, Orban was a rock star in certain authoritarian right/nationalist circles long before that.


I see. Gross.


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goldfish21
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29 Sep 2021, 12:43 pm

They're screwed:

https://www.cma.ca/news-releases-and-st ... s-breaking

Doctors and Nurses in some interviews I watched are super pissed with their politicians and citizens. Without stricter mitigation measures (lockdowns, social distancing, mask mandates etc + many more vaccinations.) the onslaught of new covid patients is just going to keep coming. A couple days ago they still had "ICU capacity," only because capacity was increased by 70% a few weeks ago. Now that is nearly 100% full, so they're at around 170% of normal with no end in sight.. thus the triage situation where people are going to start dying a whole lot more frequently. The politicians' move has been to ask the rest of Canada to send Doctors and Nurses or take their covid patients. BC said no, we have our own to deal with - thanks to the low vaccination rates in the Northern Health Region. Ontario agreed to take patients, and Alberta is leaning hard on the Maritime Provinces as so many migrant workers from Newfoundland work in the oil patch in Alta sooo they're depending on them to take in their sick as much as possible. Dicey situation there, as the Maritimes have extremely low covid rates and have done So Well with keeping people & covid out.

Sucks that cancer patients are missing treatments and surgeries are getting cancelled. :/ Unvaccinated covid patients are clogging up the hospitals so badly they're killing others by wasting medical resources. It's such a piss off because all they had to do was get vaccinated to avoid this mess.

The death toll in Alberta and Saskatchewan is about to skyrocket. I don't really see a political way out of this for their leaders. I do wonder if they're going to spin this bs with religion next.. preying on peoples' faith: "They're in God's hand now as He intended.. blah blah blah."


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funeralxempire
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05 Oct 2021, 8:04 pm



Quote:
Nearly 70 per cent of Canada's COVID-19 patients are found in just three provinces: B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan.


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goldfish21
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05 Oct 2021, 10:28 pm

^ Yep. Beyond stupid with the misinformation and conspiracy theories. Then there's also the "I was thinking about getting it but now that they're trying to Make Me get it and show my vaxx status I'm refusing blah blah my body my choice I don't want it because they're trying to make me," BS. So nuts that people would rather take their chances with covid, AND waste medical resources that could be helping someone else that has something they can't get vaccinated against.. Just So Dumb.


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kraftiekortie
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05 Oct 2021, 10:33 pm

Quebec and Ontario have lots of cases, too.



funeralxempire
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06 Oct 2021, 12:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Quebec and Ontario have lots of cases, too.


They're also much larger in terms of population.

Areas that are prone to vaccine skepticism are carrying the brunt of the caseload, just like in the US. If that weren't the case Ontario and Quebec would make up the majority of cases.


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kraftiekortie
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06 Oct 2021, 4:45 am

Let me emphasize that I believe, wholeheartedly, in the vaccines.

It’s just that Ontario and Quebec (especially Quebec) do also have a high proportion of cases within a Canadian context, and have their share of skeptics, too.



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06 Oct 2021, 9:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Let me emphasize that I believe, wholeheartedly, in the vaccines.

It’s just that Ontario and Quebec (especially Quebec) do also have a high proportion of cases within a Canadian context, and have their share of skeptics, too.


Per capita they're doing much better than out west. 60% of Canadians live in Ontario and Quebec, less than half that many live in the three western provinces. 28% of the country shouldn't make up >70% of the cases unless there's an additional factor. In this case that factor appears to be vaccine skepticism.


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kraftiekortie
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06 Oct 2021, 10:11 am

Of course there's "vaccine skepticism." I certainly hope you don't think I believe otherwise.....

All in all, COVID sucks.....and the only solution is as many people taking the vaccines as possible.



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06 Oct 2021, 10:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Of course there's "vaccine skepticism." I certainly hope you don't think I believe otherwise.....

All in all, COVID sucks.....and the only solution is as many people taking the vaccines as possible.


I don't doubt that you get that there's skepticism here, I'm just trying to give some insight into how regionalism and politics plays into the prevalence of that skepticism in some parts of the country, similar to how the US has regions more prone to skepticism.

We both get that the areas where people are less likely to take measures to protect themselves are the areas where people are at the most risk. I'm just trying to draw attention to how substantial the difference is.


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