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kuze
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06 Oct 2021, 1:28 am

BPD is said to occur in 1.6% of the population, thats over 50% more than schizophrenia for example. However, I dont think its had much visibility in the last few years on WP. Why is that? I have read about and experienced others with BPD and I think one of the taboo issues with it is the name 'borderline personality disorder'. I wonder if those who suffer from BPD find it is less socially acceptable than say Aspergers or ADHD for example because of its name? This could make it very difficult for those who suffer from BPD, from sharing their diagnosis with others. Furthermore, this could prevent those with suspected but undiagnosed BPD from seeking a diagnosis.

My other thought was regarding whether those with diagnosed BPD had BPD diagnosed as thier primary (first) condition or was it subsequently tagged onto an existing condition such as ASD or ADHD?

kuze


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magz
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06 Oct 2021, 2:47 am

I think BPD is a difficult topic and most of us haven't learned to talk about it yet - especially it's hard to admit you have BPD and then face people harmed by their BPD parents or partners. It's easier to keep hiding that information.
I also think people tend to be less aware of their personality disorders than they are of other mental health issues of themselves.


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06 Oct 2021, 2:58 am

up close it is hell. from a distance it is just sad.



Velorum
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06 Oct 2021, 3:17 am

My wife has emotionally unstable personality disorder which is how its labelled in these parts.

The best I can describe it is that as someone close at hand its like sitting on the summit of a volcano.

She was only recently diagnosed. When we first got together she seemed able to mask or utilise various coping strategies to reduce its impact on others. As time has gone on this has become more difficult and there have been incredibly difficult times for both of us. Over the past 6 months there have been two suicide attempts one of which required a hospital admission.

Our marriage is now drawing to a close as we are such a bad combination of different neurotypes. We inhabit different areas of the house and will be moving to our own separate places soon.

Thats my third failed marriage. I seem to attract personality disorders as this was the case with my other wives. You would think that I would be able to spot it a mile off - but no.

The local adult mental health service are truly appalling. She still hasnt been seen by anyone since her first suicide attempt. A mental health worker did call me up though to see how things were - he said that they werent too worried as she had me and being as I worked in childrens mental health service they considered this a protective factor. In other words they are relying on me for dynamic risk management. I tried to explain how difficult this was for me but this didnt seem to land.......


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kuze
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06 Oct 2021, 5:58 am

Velorum wrote:
My wife has emotionally unstable personality disorder which is how its labelled in these parts.

The best I can describe it is that as someone close at hand its like sitting on the summit of a volcano.

She was only recently diagnosed. When we first got together she seemed able to mask or utilise various coping strategies to reduce its impact on others. As time has gone on this has become more difficult and there have been incredibly difficult times for both of us. Over the past 6 months there have been two suicide attempts one of which required a hospital admission.

Our marriage is now drawing to a close as we are such a bad combination of different neurotypes. We inhabit different areas of the house and will be moving to our own separate places soon.

Thats my third failed marriage. I seem to attract personality disorders as this was the case with my other wives. You would think that I would be able to spot it a mile off - but no.

The local adult mental health service are truly appalling. She still hasnt been seen by anyone since her first suicide attempt. A mental health worker did call me up though to see how things were - he said that they werent too worried as she had me and being as I worked in childrens mental health service they considered this a protective factor. In other words they are relying on me for dynamic risk management. I tried to explain how difficult this was for me but this didnt seem to land.......


Hi Velorum

Reading your reply definitely touched a nerve. I wonder if some people with such destructive disorders actually seek out partners that are most likely to tolerate their behaviours. Unfortunately there are many among us that are all too willing to brush the surface behaviour aside in an effort to better understand the person beneath. I know one of my flaws as an ASD person is that I am extremely loyal. This behaviour took its toll when I sustained a 10 year marriage with someone who was constantly manipulative, destructive and violent. When our relationship began, she too was on her best behaviour. It was only after she told me that her dad killed himself when she was young, did she reveal the monster I would tolerate in the years to come. The problem is, because of my loyalty, I instantly decided to protect her no matter what. I left her more than 10 years ago. I didn't know I was ASD until recently and certainly had no idea about mental health issues at the time, but BPD or another antisocial disorder certainly comes to mind nowadays.

I am sorry that your local adult mental health services weren't helpful. I was seen relatively quickly when i recently learned i may be autistic (North West England). However, I am glad you are brave enough to face yet another relationship closure. I wonder what your next chapter in life will look like?

kuze


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Velorum
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06 Oct 2021, 6:47 am

kuze wrote:

Reading your reply definitely touched a nerve. I wonder if some people with such destructive disorders actually seek out partners that are most likely to tolerate their behaviours. Unfortunately there are many among us that are all too willing to brush the surface behaviour aside in an effort to better understand the person beneath. I know one of my flaws as an ASD person is that I am extremely loyal. This behaviour took its toll when I sustained a 10 year marriage with someone who was constantly manipulative, destructive and violent. When our relationship began, she too was on her best behaviour. It was only after she told me that her dad killed himself when she was young, did she reveal the monster I would tolerate in the years to come. The problem is, because of my loyalty, I instantly decided to protect her no matter what. I left her more than 10 years ago. I didn't know I was ASD until recently and certainly had no idea about mental health issues at the time, but BPD or another antisocial disorder certainly comes to mind nowadays.

I am sorry that your local adult mental health services weren't helpful. I was seen relatively quickly when i recently learned i may be autistic (North West England). However, I am glad you are brave enough to face yet another relationship closure. I wonder what your next chapter in life will look like?

kuze


Thanks for that Kuze

This is something that I have reflected on at length.

I think that its something more nuanced than simply being drawn to people who are predictable, loyal and apparently accepting.

If we look at a psychodynamic model of EUPD/BPD then it could be said that the persons core belief system and model of themselves within the world is skewed - more often than not by childhood trauma. Although this core belief or 'schema' is skewed and leads to maladaptive and distressing behaviour that ultimately can be unhelpful to the person they tend to protect this schema and reinforce it. Thus they, often on a subconscious level, will act in ways that prompt others to behave towards them in such a manner as to support their world view. If the core belief is "I am unlovable and everyone will reject me" then this is what they will in effect cause to happen.

Autistic people can be a great form of reinforcement for these skewed schema - although they may cope successfully for a period of time, eventually the high emotional demands and unpredictability of this kind of relationship are highly likely to cause burnout. This burnout can be interpreted very easily as rejection - the circle is then complete for the person with EUPD/BPD.

Just my opinion and my experiences - in no way meant to be disparaging to those that have this trauma induced condition. And I fully accept that I am generalising - everyone is an individual with a different profile.

The next chapter for me is planned out and very straightforward. No more relationships. Live on my own until I retire in about 8 years time and then move into the annex that my daughter is building on her house for the remaining time. Calm, order and predictability.


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kuze
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06 Oct 2021, 4:14 pm

Velorum wrote:

Thanks for that Kuze

This is something that I have reflected on at length.

I think that its something more nuanced than simply being drawn to people who are predictable, loyal and apparently accepting.

If we look at a psychodynamic model of EUPD/BPD then it could be said that the persons core belief system and model of themselves within the world is skewed - more often than not by childhood trauma. Although this core belief or 'schema' is skewed and leads to maladaptive and distressing behaviour that ultimately can be unhelpful to the person they tend to protect this schema and reinforce it. Thus they, often on a subconscious level, will act in ways that prompt others to behave towards them in such a manner as to support their world view. If the core belief is "I am unlovable and everyone will reject me" then this is what they will in effect cause to happen.

Autistic people can be a great form of reinforcement for these skewed schema - although they may cope successfully for a period of time, eventually the high emotional demands and unpredictability of this kind of relationship are highly likely to cause burnout. This burnout can be interpreted very easily as rejection - the circle is then complete for the person with EUPD/BPD.

Just my opinion and my experiences - in no way meant to be disparaging to those that have this trauma induced condition. And I fully accept that I am generalising - everyone is an individual with a different profile.

The next chapter for me is planned out and very straightforward. No more relationships. Live on my own until I retire in about 8 years time and then move into the annex that my daughter is building on her house for the remaining time. Calm, order and predictability.


On the one hand I was loyal but on the other I would call her out for her behaviour when I recognised it which made for heated discussions. Sometimes acting parental would help but the logical adult came more natural to me. Burnout came to a head one year before I left after her destructive risk taking took a new turn. I moved out as a temporary measure but I was astounded how liberating it was, with a little headspace, to realise that I could actually just leave her. I moved back in for Christmas with my kids but by the following March I was gone. My kids are in their 20’s now and things are fine.

Calm, order and predictability sounds just the ticket.


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06 Oct 2021, 4:55 pm

Maybe it IS the attachment towards 'personality' disorders? The name itself is already misleading.

I think, maybe, it also gets mixed up with vulnerable narcissism -- or thought the signs of BPD is taken as a form of vulnerable narcissism instead.

kuze wrote:
My other thought was regarding whether those with diagnosed BPD had BPD diagnosed as thier primary (first) condition or was it subsequently tagged onto an existing condition such as ASD or ADHD?

kuze

I'm not diagnosed, but a professional opinion and observations tells me I do fit.
But like any labels I had came across already, I already tried and see how much it actually fits and what references from it would serve me.


Reading about it -- like many autistic accounts, I can't relate to most accounts either.

I ​can't relate to the fear of being abandoned or extremes of mood (even though I am a moody person myself) or the overall stories about trauma and relationships, things about self image and beliefs, and all the stuff about abuse.
Just like how I can no longer relate to constant anxiety and numerous bouts of psychological triggers or loneliness.

What I'm certain is that it's not 'primary' thing to me and more of an indirect symptom of my own AS.
It is simply executive function and developmental delay -- it is only the emotional dysregulation and occassional reactivity I can relate. And it's something I've been struggling for most of my life.

But I've been gradually progressing well in this area.
And been progressing rapidly well recently, with occassional bouts of improvement too.


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08 Oct 2021, 5:51 pm

I think it's more stigmatized. People are starting to recognize that schizophrenia doesn't necessarily mean you're any more likely to be a danger to others. Whereas with BPD, unfortunately, it's one of the most common and stereotypical diagnoses among abuse perpetrators. For that reason, a lot of the discussion of it tends to be dominated by abuse victims who believe (rightly or wrongly) that their abuser has/had BPD, and this means that it can be stigmatizing to say that you have BPD because people automatically assume you're an abuser.

Ironically, CPTSD is also very common diagnosis for abuse perpetrators, but it doesn't carry the same stigma. I think because the diagnosis places more emphasis on the fact that the person is a victim of trauma, and that inspires more sympathy, even if they're also abusive.

Incidentally, some studies have found that the exact same case stories can get diagnosed with BPD or CPTSD depending on whether the story mentions behaviour symptoms followed by trauma history (BPD) or trauma history followed by behaviour symptoms (CPTSD), so there seems to be a priming effect on which diagnosis you're likely to get.



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09 Oct 2021, 6:05 am

I think ever more villainized disorder is narcissism but BPD has its share, too.
Extreme emotional instability can horribly hurt but in some cases - when a person is willing to cooperate - it can also be managed to some extent.
BPDs, narcissists and C-PTSD victims alike need super-firm boundaries. Weather one is willing to acccept these boundaries (even if maybe struggling with it) is up to the individual, not their disorder.
If not, the only remaining option is establishing such boundaries by leaving.

That's at least a picture consistent with what I've learned from books and lived experience of myself and my family members.


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Itendswithmexx
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17 Oct 2021, 8:58 am

Go and meet a couple hundred people who have bpd.
You’ll probably find that most of them if not all (when tested by unbiased person) have autism. I may be wrong but just for a second consider that bpd is the end result of unmet needs of Autistics.

But bpd is 100% curable and can be diagnosed in about ten minutes.



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17 Oct 2021, 8:59 am

Is it mainly women who get tested and treated for borderline? I don’t think they can diagnose bpd till there 18 same with bipolar. I got diagnosed with depression at 8 and given medication even though I wasn’t depressed.



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17 Oct 2021, 9:02 am

A lot of people have mental illness and some haven’t been diagnosed and some just live in denial. Mental illness is treatable. Being dumb has more of an impact that being sad.



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17 Oct 2021, 7:19 pm

Itendswithmexx wrote:
Go and meet a couple hundred people who have bpd.
You’ll probably find that most of them if not all (when tested by unbiased person) have autism. I may be wrong but just for a second consider that bpd is the end result of unmet needs of Autistics.

But bpd is 100% curable and can be diagnosed in about ten minutes.
please tell me how to cure it?



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17 Oct 2021, 7:55 pm

Itendswithmexx wrote:
Go and meet a couple hundred people who have bpd.
You’ll probably find that most of them if not all (when tested by unbiased person) have autism. I may be wrong but just for a second consider that bpd is the end result of unmet needs of Autistics.

But bpd is 100% curable and can be diagnosed in about ten minutes.

Mine is definitely something of an unmet needs alright.
But I had it a bit easier... Because I don't have the same amount of emotional needs.

I grew up emotionally and socially fulfilled -- therefore I don't have an insecure attachment style.
Yet still not well guided about emotions.
Like social skills, I needed explicit reasoning.

But like how NTs can't describe social instincts, they can't explicitly describe or explain the mechanics of emotional regulation.

Narratives of controlling emotions is translated into a form of suppression and facades instead -- which is something I cannot accept.
In truth, there are several missing steps in between whenever one tries to explain.

I had found a mine of references on my own that suited my needs on what? At recent years -- I'm at my 20s myself. Been improving ever since.


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18 Oct 2021, 4:08 am

It's a travesty that kids can't get diagnosed with BPD until they're 18 (or sometimes even 21).

If the psychs understood the amount of time one spends in complete anxiety that ones offspring is going to go and kill herself...

Are they not aware of (a) the suicide rate amongst BPD sufferers, and (b) the importance of timely intervention and treatment tailored to their condition ????

It is so so wrong.