Why is the narrative always..when you have children....

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HighLlama
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02 Apr 2022, 1:32 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah maybe me and my boyfriend don't want children...why does everyone assume women are looking for a child bearing mate...not all of us women even want children. Topics of women look for this and that for a proper mate, well some of us don't care about finding a mate to have kids with....some of us don't want to have kids at all. So why is the assumption women will always reject someone they don't see as child birting/rearing material.

Why is it assumed all us women have starting a family and babies on our mind, maybe some of us aren't into that. Just the narrative makes it sound as if all women are just looking for someone to have babies with...when some of us aren't even interested in having babies at all.

I think if I had a baby I had to take care of I'd probably end up killing myself...like don't think I could cope with it so best just not to have one. Not even sure if I would make it through the pregnancy, like I do have a weird muscle condition which for all I know makes childbirth harder...atleast that is what some doctors said when I was younger is that I could have a higher risk in pregnancy than typical so I'd have to consider that if I wanted to have kids. They are not sure the fetus would have problems but were worried I'd have problems.


It can be excruciating. My ex-fianceé dealt with that a lot. People assume because women are made to have babies, that they are made to want to. More than that, people like to see others reflect their choices. Otherwise they question themselves, or fear you are judging them. So they want you to deal with their insecurity.



HighLlama
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02 Apr 2022, 1:35 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
... Why is it assumed all us women have starting a family and babies on our mind[?].
It may have something to do with the number of single women who, after only a few weeks together, will start telling their boyfriends about how much they love kids, what it is like to hold a baby, whether they prefer pink or blue, why their pets are 'furbabies' and how great it would be for both of them to move into a house or apartment near a school.


I've never met a single person like this. Yes, some men and women will rush commitments because they are exploitative people, but why do you think so many women do this--and so specifically? When and where have you observed this?



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02 Apr 2022, 2:11 pm

HighLlama wrote:
I've never met a single person like this. Yes, some men and women will rush commitments because they are exploitative people, but why do you think so many women do this--and so specifically? When and where have you observed this?

It's not just women. I (male) once was very eager to find commitment. I was 18, and had just started college. So when a girl showed interest in me, I immediately became extremely interested in getting highly serious with her right away. Me finding her physically unattractive and boring to be around was irrelevant. I figured I'd just adapt. All that mattered was that she liked me and had accepted my date offer, and I finally had a chance at a relationship. (I never had one before.)

She must have picked up on my desperation and/or lack of enjoyment with her. Because when me and her went to the winter dance, she wouldn't dance close with me in a snuggle. That's when I ghosted her right after that night. Snuggly dancing is a standard part of a relationship repertoire, and if she couldn't deliver it, I had no reason to keep seeing her. It's ironic that platonic female friends or women I had just met on cruises danced with me more romantically than she did.



HighLlama
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02 Apr 2022, 3:28 pm

^Yes, I know men can push for early commitment, as my post said. I was simply questioning the idea that so many women bring up babies, in detail, early. And that this--not our ability for reproduction--is why society assumes all women want children.

The rest of your post is a whole different topic, concerning early dating experience, insecurity, and communication.



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24 Apr 2022, 6:20 am

Aspie1 wrote:
Most, if not all, parents have kids for one reason and one reason only: to have a weak, powerless creature in their home to control and emotionally abuse 24/7. It gives them an ego boost, like the Elite Hunting Club members paying $25,000 to torture a powerless victim ("Hostel" reference). So, someone who experienced and enjoyed a sense of limitless power over their powerless child/teen for many years will NEVER understand someone who never enjoyed the same feeling.

I was suicidal since I was 5, because my parents had me for the very reasons I described.

I'm sorry to hear that you had such an awful childhood. However, please don't overgeneralize to "most, if not all, parents."


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FinneganMay
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22 May 2022, 2:29 am

Not all women look for such partners, but women look for men from whom they are willing to have children to reproduce. Those who see sense in this may ask you the same thing, how is it that you don't want to have children. A woman has her instincts and is looking for a male. She chooses not a man. Her choice is a strong man who can provide for the family. I recently became a mother for the third time but from another man. He knows everything about children. He is not afraid. Would you agree to live with a man who would leave you after the birth or not? Would you live with him without children knowing that he would leave after the birth? My husband knows what discerning baby boy dummy clips are, even though I had no idea. He knows how to do everything, but I work. Would you be able to do that?



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22 May 2022, 5:35 am

GadgetGuru wrote:
Being deliberately "childfree" does seem to present a challenge to understand to those who possess the majority attitude that "being a parent is the best thing in life".

I've known since I was quite young that I have ZERO interest or desire in parenting. I don't hate children, I simply have no innate capacity to want to have them. And I have other more rational reasons for being childfree, as well, so there are multiple layers of resistance between me and parenthood, psychologically.

Given that I made no attempt at dating until age 30, it wasn't a physical, practical issue until then, and even then, my first girlfriend had a tubal ligation many years before we met, so there was no risk of "having my ideas challenged".

My second girlfriend (when I was 37) was on "the pill", but mentioned some months into the relationship that "she had thought she MIGHT have been pregnant" some months before. I practically RAN to the doc, yelling "cut me, Doc!" and was very soon after nicely free of any further worries on this issue, due to two very minor incisions and the resulting minor internal plumbing alterations. WORTH EVERY PENNY! And at least for me, a very trouble-free and minor procedure.

You guys are lucky, that seems much safer and with fewer side-effects.

Tubal ligation/Collaborative review of sterilization: "Five years after sterilization, 35% of the CREST participants reported high levels of menstrual pain, 49% reported heavy or very heavy menstrual flow, and 10% reported spotting between periods." 35+49+10 = almost everyone
The Collaborative Review of Sterilization is a prospective, multicenter study that interviewed 7,590 women before they underwent tubal sterilization and then conducted yearly follow- up interviews that included questions on sterilization regret.

Risk of failure:
tubal ligation "In an estimated one in 200 cases, a tubal ligation fails to prevent pregnancy." - twice the contraceptive effect
vasectomy: "Only one to two in 1,000 men have a vasectomy that fails."



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15 Jun 2022, 12:40 pm

Rexi wrote:


Tubal ligation/Collaborative review of sterilization: "Five years after sterilization, 35% of the CREST participants reported high levels of menstrual pain, 49% reported heavy or very heavy menstrual flow, and 10% reported spotting between periods." 35+49+10 = almost everyone
The Collaborative Review of Sterilization is a prospective, multicenter study that interviewed 7,590 women before they underwent tubal sterilization and then conducted yearly follow- up interviews that included questions on sterilization regret.

Risk of failure:
tubal ligation "In an estimated one in 200 cases, a tubal ligation fails to prevent pregnancy." - twice the contraceptive effect
vasectomy: "Only one to two in 1,000 men have a vasectomy that fails."


Failure won't happen to me. I didn't have my tubes tied, I had them taken out.

I had hit my 40s, still had a regular cycle, and knew that if I still didn't want children by now, I never would. Also, knowing I would not carry any pregnancy to term at this point in my life, I was concerned about the laws changing down the road, and wanted to have more feeling of autonomy regarding my own body.

People thought I was hysterical or imagining things, as usual. But with Roe v Wade being overturned, guess who was right all along.


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15 Jun 2022, 4:35 pm

HighLlama wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
... Why is it assumed all us women have starting a family and babies on our mind[?].
It may have something to do with the number of single women who, after only a few weeks together, will start telling their boyfriends about how much they love kids, what it is like to hold a baby, whether they prefer pink or blue, why their pets are 'furbabies' and how great it would be for both of them to move into a house or apartment near a school.
I've never met a single person like this. Yes, some men and women will rush commitments because they are exploitative people, but why do you think so many women do this--and so specifically?
Because most of the woman I have personally known have done this -- even some who, for age or medical reasons, cannot conceive or bear children.
HighLlama wrote:
When and where have you observed this?
In every place I have lived, and especially during my "wild youth".  Keep in mind that I am 65 years old, and have lived in a few countries other than the USA.



nick007
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24 Jun 2022, 12:34 am

I'm betting that the bible has something to do with this. Lots of men assume that there is something horribly wrong if a woman does not want to pop out children & they try to force women to have kids by making abortion illegal & restricting access to birth-control under the guise of religious freedom. It's one of the many reasons I'm a male feminist. Men like that make me ashame to be biologically male.

My girlfriend wants kids & has spent a bit of time with kids when she was in her early 20s like volunteering to help teach bible study & volunteering at the library. She's been told more than a few times that she would be a good mom. I never wanted kids & she knew that when she got together with me so she kinda made the decision not to by choosing to be with me. She has lots of various issues that would make it extremely difficult for her to be a parent & she can barely handle taking care of our two pets & me & being there for her family so she realizes that she could not handle being a parent. I guess it's possible things would be a lot easier for her if she was with someone much more independent like a normal non-disabled guy instead of me but it's best not to dwell on the What If thinking. I felt like a parent at times in all 3 of my romantic relationships, especially my 1st & current & that's more than enough parenting for me. I def could NOT handle raising a kid & I'm sure no decent social worker or psychiatrist who would know all my psych & mental stuff would ever let me have kids. Me & Cass both think that the planet is waaay to overly populated by humans so that's probably another factor as to why she's OK with not having kids.


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Eurythmic
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25 Jun 2022, 12:01 am

My partner and I have heard that for most of our lives.

A sentence that begins with "When you have children..."

I used to try to correct people, now I don't even bother.
It's a mindset some people get set in. I want to have children. Having children is normal. You should want to have children too. What do you mean you don't? Don't be silly, everyone wants to have children.

Happy to just let the expectations and assumptions wash over me now, I'm past caring.

We both have never had any desire to procreate. The planet is already overpopulated.
We've never been able to stand what parents go through. The noise. The chaos. The tantrums.

Parenthood certainly is for some people, but it's not for us.
Our family size is two. We're both in our 40s and are doing very well for ourselves in life.
No sign of children, we just enjoy life.



Finn Razelle
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17 Jul 2022, 9:37 am

Words like "always" and "never" invite wild overgeneralizations, and there are always exceptions. (Heh. See what I did there?) ;-) In this case, I'd wager that there are more people of every gender who are choosing to be childfree for all sorts of reasons these days--myself among them.

That said, I do understand why people gravitate towards those "women always..." overgeneralizations-- especially when movies, commercials, songs, and other media are still heavily overpopulated with 1950s-era nuclear-family values: stay-at-home moms, happy little children, wonderful little picket-fence life.

Ugh.

No offense meant to those who have chosen that life... or had it chosen for them. Hey, more power to ya. But it ain't the only way to pursue fulfillment in this wacky world, and those of us who gleefully choose to remain childfree (and spouse-free, baby!) still have plenty to offer, have plenty of value in and of ourselves.

My motto? If the narrative sucks, write a new story.

And we are.



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24 Jul 2022, 2:04 pm

"But of COURSE you want/will want children. It's just a phase that you're going through right now..."

Pretty long phase if you ask me, it never happened!

Though I do have to laugh at the idea of finding an obstetrician that takes Medicare. ;)


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Yaomo
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27 Jul 2022, 5:24 pm

There are some people who absolutely love children, but equally hate the thought of having their own.

Being the rich or cool aunt/uncle or godparent should be a more widespread and valued role in society.

Though I'll accept the grumpynwho hates children too. My aunt has a single child from a marriage that didn't last. And the new man she found was someone who really doesn't like children, and they've lived happily childless long past fertile years.


There was a whole lot of weird written in this thread, but I'll comment on only one thing: The Bible.
Some people keep reading that old testament, forgetting whatever rules written pertain to Jews only. In the new testament, there are lots of letters written by this man called Paul. And he warned people against letting their daughters get married, mostly because having children in such a terrible world would be a woeful fate.
To be a good Christian (not Jew), don't get married (pretend you aren't intimate with anyone). Unless you want those children so bad that life doesn't seem worth living without them. If youvare a woman.
I think the advice he'd like to give men is generally just to not have sex. But in today's world, we know how to do consent and birth control, so I guess we don't have to listen to a man who lived two thousand years ago.



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31 Aug 2022, 9:37 pm

Neurotypical capitalist society expects people to do three things: to consume, to breed and to labor. If there is no competition for jobs there's no way to drive down salaries and drive up prices and create useless management hierarchies. Driving up prices is possible because when there's enough people it's only marketing that creates a way for people to differentiate and create an identity: buying stuff. Because if you take a rich person and put him in a poor person's clothes and house, they are a poor person despite whatever they think internally differentiates them from the poor, it's mainly their status: their things, their logos, not much else. Of course looks and social abilities matter too but the first one is an investment of diminishing returns and the second is something that can only be fabricated to a point (learning marketing or its original word: propaganda) and is in most peoples cases as much of a luck of the draw as the looks department.

Even education is based on logos. It doesn't matter if you have the best teacher and understanding in any subject, if your school is Harvard it will look better on the resume and your chance to be hired is greater despite ability. There is no inherent security in inner qualities, only financial security is security in a capitalist world. If it weren't true, there would be less competition to climb to the top and far fewer bodies in the wake of the climb.

And the ugly monopoly requires players, new wage slaves. Oh well, actually in modern times somehow people are even convinced to work years for free! For the experience of course. If you don't participate in the game you aren't only useless, but a threat to the system and the chore beliefs which is with hard work you can have the most status too. That is why it is assumed that you will entrap yourself by it like the rest of society. It is unfathomable to the brainwashed that there is a thing called being content and that you can be of use without being used.