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Nades
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11 Nov 2021, 2:50 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Zero Sum game rhetoric going on here. Understanding genetic causation need not necessarily mean using that knowledge to eliminate autism and autistics from the face of the earth. It can be used to make the autistic lives better.

Coping strategies are autistics adjusting to the NT world, NT's need not do anything. We do not demand that of most minorities, or people with diseases.

I am not naive here, as a small minority, we are always going to have to do a lot of adjusting. There are always going to be NT's that will be uncomfortable around us, probably most, it is a natural thing to be uncomfortable around differences, so why not get rid of the problem by eliminating autism? Let's take this line of thinking further, black and darkness make a lot of people uncomfortable. Would it not be easier if we could through genetics get rid of blackness? That might be easier than getting rid of autism since autism involves so many genes. But we will never know because research with that goal in mind will probably never will happen. Pretty much the same with most minorities. But is is the right thing to do for autistics :x :x


I think eliminating autism can only be of benefit. Autism isn't a physical trait like black skin. It's often a serious disorder with one of the worst "prognosis" to leading a fulfilling life of all the physiological disorders.

Even high functioning autistics have serious problems wrestling with their autism.



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11 Nov 2021, 8:51 am

Nades wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Zero Sum game rhetoric going on here. Understanding genetic causation need not necessarily mean using that knowledge to eliminate autism and autistics from the face of the earth. It can be used to make the autistic lives better.

Coping strategies are autistics adjusting to the NT world, NT's need not do anything. We do not demand that of most minorities, or people with diseases.

I am not naive here, as a small minority, we are always going to have to do a lot of adjusting. There are always going to be NT's that will be uncomfortable around us, probably most, it is a natural thing to be uncomfortable around differences, so why not get rid of the problem by eliminating autism? Let's take this line of thinking further, black and darkness make a lot of people uncomfortable. Would it not be easier if we could through genetics get rid of blackness? That might be easier than getting rid of autism since autism involves so many genes. But we will never know because research with that goal in mind will probably never will happen. Pretty much the same with most minorities. But is is the right thing to do for autistics :x :x


I think eliminating autism can only be of benefit. Autism isn't a physical trait like black skin. It's often a serious disorder with one of the worst "prognosis" to leading a fulfilling life of all the physiological disorders.

Even high functioning autistics have serious problems wrestling with their autism.

I disagree. Autism generally by itself not as bad as clinical depression or a psychological condition that renders one unable to see reality or understand the world around them. I say generally because you have to take into account severity.

Autism also often occurs with other conditions. These conditions combined with autism are what often makes autistics life difficult. Are comorbid conditions not comorbid conditions at all but autistic traits, are they the caused being are a minority in a world designed for the majority, or some combination of the above?. Science has not figured that out yet.


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13 Nov 2021, 8:27 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Nades wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Zero Sum game rhetoric going on here. Understanding genetic causation need not necessarily mean using that knowledge to eliminate autism and autistics from the face of the earth. It can be used to make the autistic lives better.

Coping strategies are autistics adjusting to the NT world, NT's need not do anything. We do not demand that of most minorities, or people with diseases.

I am not naive here, as a small minority, we are always going to have to do a lot of adjusting. There are always going to be NT's that will be uncomfortable around us, probably most, it is a natural thing to be uncomfortable around differences, so why not get rid of the problem by eliminating autism? Let's take this line of thinking further, black and darkness make a lot of people uncomfortable. Would it not be easier if we could through genetics get rid of blackness? That might be easier than getting rid of autism since autism involves so many genes. But we will never know because research with that goal in mind will probably never will happen. Pretty much the same with most minorities. But is is the right thing to do for autistics :x :x


I think eliminating autism can only be of benefit. Autism isn't a physical trait like black skin. It's often a serious disorder with one of the worst "prognosis" to leading a fulfilling life of all the physiological disorders.

Even high functioning autistics have serious problems wrestling with their autism.

I disagree. Autism generally by itself not as bad as clinical depression or a psychological condition that renders one unable to see reality or understand the world around them. I say generally because you have to take into account severity.

Autism also often occurs with other conditions. These conditions combined with autism are what often makes autistics life difficult. Are comorbid conditions not comorbid conditions at all but autistic traits, are they the caused being are a minority in a world designed for the majority, or some combination of the above?. Science has not figured that out yet.


Everything depends on the severity I think. Depression like autism has its own spectrum raging from debilitating to mild.

When it comes to comorbid conditions like depression, I think autism cause them in most cases.

I think stopping all research into autism like these protestors intend is a dangerous precedent they're attempting to start and one that I feel is unwelcomed by most autistics.



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14 Nov 2021, 1:18 pm

Nades wrote:
I think stopping all research into autism like these protestors intend is a dangerous precedent they're attempting to start and one that I feel is unwelcomed by most autistics.
I think the protestors only want to stop genetic research, not other types of research. I'm not sure if that is unwelcomed by most autistics. For example, the Autistic Self Advocacy Network is against researching what causes autism:
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... tatements/
(penultimate position statement, "Autism Research and Therapies", third paragraph, "Research That Helps Autistic People")


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14 Nov 2021, 5:55 pm

KenG wrote:
Nades wrote:
I think stopping all research into autism like these protestors intend is a dangerous precedent they're attempting to start and one that I feel is unwelcomed by most autistics.
I think the protestors only want to stop genetic research, not other types of research. I'm not sure if that is unwelcomed by most autistics. For example, the Autistic Self Advocacy Network is against researching what causes autism:
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... tatements/
(penultimate position statement, "Autism Research and Therapies", third paragraph, "Research That Helps Autistic People")



In this day and age, that's virtually all research.

A protest like this strikes me as imposing quite extreme views on other autistics by implying that their autism isn't a problem.

Just because autism isn't a problem in these protestors life, doesn't mean that it's not a problem for other autistics.

Like I said, I think a lot of the people protesting are living at home with their parents with a substantial support network around them and a lot more might be on disability benefits.....it's no wonder autism isn't a problem for them when their needs are taken care of. These people, in effect have been completely removed from the realities of adulthood and live in a Peter Pan syndrome bubble.

A lot of other autistics cross the arbitrary threshold for being able to lead a relatively normal life and have to navigate their way around the real world outside of any support networks. Many of them succeed perfectly fine in the end but in doing so, know full well how much of a curse autism has been to them. These autistics will probably never attend a protest like this or agree with anything they believe in.

I've had a nose at that website too, I agree with more support, but their blanket dislike of research is troubling and their idea of "research" is actually just research into support.



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15 Nov 2021, 8:51 am

Cambridge study faces continued backlash from autistic community

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Spectrum 10K, a study into factors contributing to autism and autism-related health conditions, was paused on 27 September 2021 in response to backlash from the autistic community. An open letter of concerns regarding the study has since been released by Boycott Spectrum 10K, a campaign led by members of the autistic community.

Boycott S10K has also published a version of the letter that seeks to improve accessibility to the campaign, which is composed of “plain language summaries” of the full statement.

The letter cites concerns of “how the data from genetic research could be used.” It calls for “clear information about what the regulations around biodata are,” including regulations that outline the criteria for its future use.

Spectrum 10K has released a disclaimer stating that anonymized data may be provided to “commercial collaborators,” “highly secure research databases” and “potential academic collaborators.”

Spectrum 10K has not provided confirmation that “openly autistic, or any autistic researchers have been involved in the creation or design of the study.”

However, the study has “decided to pause any further recruitment of new participants” until a consultation is co-designed and conducted with autistic people. In its latest update (28 October 2021), Spectrum 10K claimed it was working “to decide who should be involved in co-designing the consultation.”


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15 Nov 2021, 9:22 am

There is no "cure" for autism----and there never will be. Autism has many causes, not just a few. It can be genetic, it can be chromosomal, it can be caused by anoxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) at birth. One thing it cannot be: something acquired after the neonatal period.

We should concentrate on improving the lives of people with autism. Through providing practical advice----and just being more flexible with them. And respecting them as much as any other human being.

The key....is to not let a few social faux pas interfere with the overall assessment of a person who is obviously competent within what he/she is doing.



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15 Nov 2021, 9:43 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There is no "cure" for autism----and there never will be. Autism has many causes, not just a few. It can be genetic, it can be chromosomal, it can be caused by anoxia (lack of oxygen to the brain) at birth. One thing it cannot be: something acquired after the neonatal period.

We should concentrate on improving the lives of people with autism. Through providing practical advice----and just being more flexible with them. And respecting them as much as any other human being.


Cure no. Preemptive gene therapy in the future though? Perhaps.

It's a shame really some are against finding the cause. "What causes autism" is perhaps the most fundamental question about the disorder yet there is actually a group of colourful protesters who don't want that answered.



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15 Nov 2021, 10:12 am

It's very common for people with serious hereditary disabilities to not reproduce because they don't want to risk bringing another kid into the world who has that disability, they cant handle the responsibility of raising a kid, &/or they have major problems finding romantic partners who are willing to have kids with em. People with serious disabilities choosing & not being able to get the chance to have kids is selective breeding which is perfectly acceptable in society. Some people wanting kids even go the sperm donor & artificial insemination route. Scientists are also genetically engineering crops & starting to clone & genetically engineer animals these days. Eugenics seems like only one more step down that road. It's kinda hard to tell where & when do we draw the line. What I'm majorly concerned about is people being genetically engendered & raised with the intention that they will be soldiers & warriors. I seen enough syfy to know that can go horrible wrong & raising people to fight & kill each other is the last thing this already majorly f#cked-up world needs.


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15 Nov 2021, 10:28 am

I agree with you, Nick. Absolutely.

I'm as much against eugenics as anybody.

They're not going to find the "cause" of autism----because there is not one "cause" of autism.



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16 Nov 2021, 2:15 am

I have not read about this study in detail, but to me, it sounds like some research into the causes of autism, which seems fine to me. As a scientifically minded person, I would like to know what causes autism.

Yet all I've heard is criticism.

I notice all this criticism seems to come from the 'autism community', which I am not part of, which might explain why I have differing opinions.



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16 Nov 2021, 9:19 am

Nades wrote:
KenG wrote:
Nades wrote:
I think stopping all research into autism like these protestors intend is a dangerous precedent they're attempting to start and one that I feel is unwelcomed by most autistics.
I think the protestors only want to stop genetic research, not other types of research. I'm not sure if that is unwelcomed by most autistics. For example, the Autistic Self Advocacy Network is against researching what causes autism:
https://autisticadvocacy.org/about-asan ... tatements/
(penultimate position statement, "Autism Research and Therapies", third paragraph, "Research That Helps Autistic People")



In this day and age, that's virtually all research.

A protest like this strikes me as imposing quite extreme views on other autistics by implying that their autism isn't a problem.

Just because autism isn't a problem in these protestors life, doesn't mean that it's not a problem for other autistics.

Like I said, I think a lot of the people protesting are living at home with their parents with a substantial support network around them and a lot more might be on disability benefits.....it's no wonder autism isn't a problem for them when their needs are taken care of. These people, in effect have been completely removed from the realities of adulthood and live in a Peter Pan syndrome bubble.

A lot of other autistics cross the arbitrary threshold for being able to lead a relatively normal life and have to navigate their way around the real world outside of any support networks. Many of them succeed perfectly fine in the end but in doing so, know full well how much of a curse autism has been to them. These autistics will probably never attend a protest like this or agree with anything they believe in.

I've had a nose at that website too, I agree with more support, but their blanket dislike of research is troubling and their idea of "research" is actually just research into support.


You are correct of course sadly many Autistic people have a childlike view of the condition.

I signed up to 10k even though I dislike SBC, but was disappointed when they told me unlike SPARK they won’t share info on findings with me, but I did it anyway because I support research even if it’s poorly conducted research.

Eugenics takes many forms the biggest at the moment is diagnosis of even the most mildest forms like in presenter Christine McGuiness.

I support and accept the need for diagnosis but can see where once a woman would simply accept a man as a bit different now he has an autism diagnosis so she’ll be reluctant to have a child with him.

That’s the way natural selection works people are identified publicly from diagnosis, he and family know and there’s less of a chance that man will be able to have a relationship and pass on his genes.

They also want to double down on this sad reality by creating an”autistic identity” and sealing us in by campaigning against a treatment or cure.

Maybe it’s conspiracy theory to ask who is really behind this effort at segregation of human beings and what their true motives are. Who’s the real piper here pulling the strings under the glossy “Neurodiversity” label.

Also these people are so scared about spectrum 10k and an authoritarian government like the gov would be unable to access medical records of the diagnosed and use it against them.

They should really grow up and think about what they are doing and supporting.


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17 Nov 2021, 3:52 am

While I support and understand diagnosis, the sad fact is putting a big scary label on someone who would otherwise lead a relatively normal life may not be the best outcome.

How many NT men & women who would have just accepted their partner as just a bit different would think twice about continuing a relationship or having kids with them once they reveal their autism diagnosis?

I can imagine a potential partner once being told, then thinking “what`s this autism thing then?” Going on google and seeing a ID, non- verbal kid hitting himself and thinking “my kids not going to be retarded I’m outta here!”

In fact, there would probably be a lot of pressure by the NT family on the person concerned to end the relationship, worse than the bad racist days of mixed-race relationships.

It seems there is an obsession with diagnosing people with extremely mild symptoms which is itself a form of eugenics for reasons above.

The Neurodiversity movement wanting to create an identity out of autism is just another velvet glove form of eugenics.

So NT people can think “here go the retards waving their flag, bless their cotton socks, glad my kids and myself are not you”

Where people who think they might be autistic are encouraged to get diagnosed & reveal themselves to the world. No doubt so they can be later avoided by prospective partners, even if that’s not their intention the results are the same which is just another kinder 21st cent form of eugenics given a different name of “identity”.


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17 Nov 2021, 5:14 am

carlos55 wrote:

I can imagine a potential partner once being told, then thinking “what`s this autism thing then?” Going on google and seeing a ID, non- verbal kid hitting himself and thinking “my kids not going to be retarded I’m outta here!”


Carlos my man, you spotted one of my biggest gripes with autism advocacy and one of the biggest threats against us. Legions of do goody parents plastering their idea if what autism is and drowning out everyone else's idea, including autistic adults themselves (the ones who don't punch their own faces). Sort of like what these protestors are doing isn't it....many of who appear to be parents with their autistic offspring......drowning out other autistics who actually have common sense.

Google image "Autism" and nothing but kids and bright colours appear. And they wonder why autistics struggle moving into adulthood huh?

They make even me nervous of having sex and I don't really have much to begin with. I'm sure local sales of Durex condoms rocket up wherever protests like this take place.



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17 Nov 2021, 6:02 am

carlos55 wrote:
.

So NT people can think “here go the retards waving their flag, bless their cotton socks, glad my kids and myself are not you”


You're like a clone of me with what you think on this subject. Yes, yes and even more yes.

Its not just NT's thinking this too.



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19 Nov 2021, 5:46 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I agree with you, Nick. Absolutely.

I'm as much against eugenics as anybody.

They're not going to find the "cause" of autism----because there is not one "cause" of autism.
You could be quite rite about not finding the cause for autism but I don't see a real problem with doing research to find out. It seems theoretically possible that having a better idea of what the autism causes are could potentially lead to easier & earlier diagnoses of autism which may help some autistics receive more autism support growing up. I think there are much more important issues for the autism community to prioritize over us freaking out about the autism gene getting erased & autistic cures being forced onto us. For example there can be LOTS of confusion over what autism is. Even people in the medical field & so-called experts can be majorly confused by autism. Having better autism awareness could help us face less stigma & help us receive supports & services that help us transition from children to becoming independent adults. Lots of things about autism I read online talk about kids but what happens when those kids become adults? Many of us are not able to live the rest of our lives with our parents or other relatives who will be our caregivers till we die. Parents in general tend to die before their kids do & it's also very common for parents of autistics & parents of disableds in general to feel very frustrated about being forced to take care of their disabled adult kid. I'm not saying that us autistics should get handouts for the rest of our lives. There is a saying that goes "If you give a man a fish he'll eat for a day. But if you teach a man to fish he'll eat for a lifetime". Lots of us could learn to fish if we were provided with the rite teachers, tools, & opportunities.


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