10 year old autistics suicide - racist, ableist school

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Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2021, 2:46 am

If there's some other possibility why she took her own life other than bullying, I'd seriously like to hear it.


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cyberdad
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14 Nov 2021, 3:58 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
If there's some other possibility why she took her own life other than bullying, I'd seriously like to hear it.


Yeah I'm curious what Dox knows that we don't?



Dox47
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14 Nov 2021, 6:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
If there's some other possibility why she took her own life other than bullying, I'd seriously like to hear it.


She took her own life due to an undiagnosed mental condition, she took her own life without meaning to in an accident, or we could put on the tinfoil and ask how do we even know she killed herself, all we have is her parents word, maybe she died in an accident at home and they're covering it up or cashing in, these are just a few possibilities off the top of my head, the point is none of us actually know.


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Dox47
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14 Nov 2021, 6:19 am

cyberdad wrote:
Yeah I'm curious what Dox knows that we don't?


What I don't know, that's what I know.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2021, 6:34 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
If there's some other possibility why she took her own life other than bullying, I'd seriously like to hear it.


She took her own life due to an undiagnosed mental condition, she took her own life without meaning to in an accident, or we could put on the tinfoil and ask how do we even know she killed herself, all we have is her parents word, maybe she died in an accident at home and they're covering it up or cashing in, these are just a few possibilities off the top of my head, the point is none of us actually know.


Or just maybe she killed herself because she was bullied to the emotional point of no return. That's my bet.


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Dox47
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14 Nov 2021, 6:43 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Or just maybe she killed herself because she was bullied to the emotional point of no return. That's my bet.


Yes, that seems to be the most likely possibility, but we don't know.


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DW_a_mom
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14 Nov 2021, 7:21 am

Whether the toxic atmosphere at the school led to a suicide or not does not change the fact that the school seems to have allowed a toxic and unsafe environment to fester. For that alone they can be held accountable IMHO.

Sorting out all the details and what may have led to what or not is what the discovery process which follows a lawsuit filing is for.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2021, 7:52 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or just maybe she killed herself because she was bullied to the emotional point of no return. That's my bet.


Yes, that seems to be the most likely possibility, but we don't know.


I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


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Dox47
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14 Nov 2021, 8:05 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


Empathy has nothing to do with insisting on factual rigor, and I've never claimed that bullying doesn't lead to lasting effects, so there is nothing to concede.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2021, 8:09 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


Empathy has nothing to do with insisting on factual rigor, and I've never claimed that bullying doesn't lead to lasting effects, so there is nothing to concede.


But I don't recall you ever taking the part of the bullied. In fact, I remember you taking the side of jocks who are usually the perpetrators of bullying, claiming those of us who called out jock bullies were unfairly signalling them out.


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cyberdad
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14 Nov 2021, 8:09 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


Empathy has nothing to do with insisting on factual rigor, and I've never claimed that bullying doesn't lead to lasting effects, so there is nothing to concede.


Ok so I'm confused what your point is? the poor girl was bullied to the point of suicide, her family says their daughter told them the bullying was about her autism and race. Are you saying both the bullying victim and the grieving parents are liars?



Dox47
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14 Nov 2021, 8:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
But I don't recall you ever taking the part of the bullied. In fact, I remember you taking the side of jocks who are usually the perpetrators of bullying, claiming those of us who called out jock bullies were unfairly signalling them out.


I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to there, I think I can vaguely recall something like me saying that it wasn't fair to claim all jocks are bullies, which is true and correct, but without the specific quote of mine I can't really respond more than that.

As to me taking sides, you have to keep a few things in mind; I don't like to pile on with "oh god that's awful" type comments, especially if others are already doing it, it's just not my style, and also that what draws my attention and comments is typically contradictions, like someone complaining about bullies while engaging in a bullying behavior themselves, such as stereotyping.


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Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2021, 8:46 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
But I don't recall you ever taking the part of the bullied. In fact, I remember you taking the side of jocks who are usually the perpetrators of bullying, claiming those of us who called out jock bullies were unfairly signalling them out.


I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to there, I think I can vaguely recall something like me saying that it wasn't fair to claim all jocks are bullies, which is true and correct, but without the specific quote of mine I can't really respond more than that.

As to me taking sides, you have to keep a few things in mind; I don't like to pile on with "oh god that's awful" type comments, especially if others are already doing it, it's just not my style, and also that what draws my attention and comments is typically contradictions, like someone complaining about bullies while engaging in a bullying behavior themselves, such as stereotyping.


I never said all jocks were bullies - in fact, a couple jocks were my friends. But almost all bullies in my day were jocks.


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DW_a_mom
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14 Nov 2021, 8:51 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


Empathy has nothing to do with insisting on factual rigor, and I've never claimed that bullying doesn't lead to lasting effects, so there is nothing to concede.


Ok so I'm confused what your point is? the poor girl was bullied to the point of suicide, her family says their daughter told them the bullying was about her autism and race. Are you saying both the bullying victim and the grieving parents are liars?


I read his point as saying that while we know A (bullying) and B (suicide) most likely existed, we don’t have verification on either, nor can we prove B is the result of A. Everyone is assuming B is the result of A, but it may not be the case. While it may seem insensitive, the truth is that we can’t decrease the likelihood of such situations (B) occurring in the future if we end up assuming our way into misattributing the cause. It would make things worse, not better.

I’ve been trying to recognize that by separating A from B and leaving determination of any connection to the civil suit process.


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cyberdad
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15 Nov 2021, 1:43 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I couldn't help but notice you have never had any empathy for the bullied. Are you willing to concede, at the very least, that bullies leave lasting effects on their victims?


Empathy has nothing to do with insisting on factual rigor, and I've never claimed that bullying doesn't lead to lasting effects, so there is nothing to concede.


Ok so I'm confused what your point is? the poor girl was bullied to the point of suicide, her family says their daughter told them the bullying was about her autism and race. Are you saying both the bullying victim and the grieving parents are liars?


I read his point as saying that while we know A (bullying) and B (suicide) most likely existed, we don’t have verification on either, nor can we prove B is the result of A. Everyone is assuming B is the result of A, but it may not be the case. While it may seem insensitive, the truth is that we can’t decrease the likelihood of such situations (B) occurring in the future if we end up assuming our way into misattributing the cause. It would make things worse, not better.

I’ve been trying to recognize that by separating A from B and leaving determination of any connection to the civil suit process.


You sound the like the lawyer for the school



DW_a_mom
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15 Nov 2021, 1:58 am

cyberdad wrote:

You sound the like the lawyer for the school


I believe I was quite clear in my earlier posts in this thread that there is no excuse for such a toxic environment in a school.


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