Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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carlos55
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22 Jun 2022, 4:39 am

magz wrote:
I don't think supply lines to Lithuania would be a problem. Supply lines to landlocked Afghanistan are worse and don't go through allies' territories - and NATO managed to fight 20 years of war there.

Poland would certainly go to Lithuania's aid because it's a question of survival for us - and, in addition, we would do everything to drag the rest of NATO into it.
Having seen that Ukraine is able to fight roughly balanced war with Russia, Baltic states + Poland would be capable of the same. NATO is not just USA - but USA and Britain are probably trigger happy enough to join us there.

But to make such an attack possibly unlikely, making US Army visible in the critical points of Lithuania would likely prevent all this from becoming reality. Russians love to threat those they find weak but cower before those they find strong. Opening another front right now would be a suicide and they know it.


Russia is only using 20% of its forces saving the other 80% in case NATO become involved.

The Donbas is also like a giant city with many built up areas in close proximity leading to vicious street to street fighting.

So the slow Russian advance here is not comparable to a tactical punch through a small area largely uninhabited.

Nuclear balance of power is a complex thing two powers that can destroy each other or MAD.

They would not use that power unless their land mass is directly attacked, as to do so guarantees their destruction.

Russia would be attacking non nuclear states. Nuclear states US France and UK are not at risk

So the US Britain and France will not end themselves for this. However Kaliningrad is a part of Russia or their landmass so an attack on it will unlock its nuclear forces in the same way Russia attacking Florida would do to US.

Also most NATO weapons were made in US thousands of miles away.

In 1990 and 2003 the US spent nearly 6 months shipping military hardware to the gulf against a country that couldn’t do anything about that had no satellite data or means of sinking those supply ships.

So supply lines would matter here.

Article 5 is often misquoted too, it has some get out clauses that rarely mentioned. It’s doesn’t specifically state every member has to go to war automatically like a computer program switch. Rather it states can choose to come to the aid of those attacked without stipulating what that aid may be and there is a choice to do nothing.

It’s one of those things that’s better not tested as it may not end well for Lithuania


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magz
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22 Jun 2022, 5:15 am

American ammo is claimed to reach Ukraine within 72 hours from Biden signing a paper. Military transport planes have been designed for some purpose - if you fly over friendly territory, you can use them without limits.

Suwałki Gap is not an easy steppe to conquer - it's all lakes, marshes, small rivers and forests. Good for defence, perfect for guerilla fights. The Polish side of it is already densely stuffed with military.

Russia attacking Suwałki Gap would be of course tragic short term - but long term, it can easily lead to getting rid of this damned Kaliningrad Oblast pointing nukes at my city. An opportunity that would interest all the states around Baltic, if that red line was crossed not by us. Certainly Poland would jump the occasion.

Britain is already using the war to leverage their position against the rest of Europe. Johnson even proposed an alliance between UK, Poland, Lithuania and Ukraine as an alternative to EU - not really plausible but shows their geopolitical aim. If USA did nothing to defend Suwałki Gap, Britain would likely jump the occasion to fill the vacuum. And USA knows it would humiliate them, so they wouldn't let it happen. They have already 10 000 soldiers and lots of equipment here.

Yes, I know the risk is on me, maybe even personally. But I know Russia from close distance. The risk of doing nothing is greater.
Russian Army are not some invincible demons. They are brutal, corrupt, messy bullies. Absolutely defeatable if we gang up, with or without USA. We've done it 100 years ago, we can do it again.


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goldfish21
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06 Jul 2022, 9:31 pm

Pretty nice donation.. $20M worth:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-tv ... 43881.html

Also, it's pretty crazy how the war in Ukraine has all but completely disappeared from the news sources I use - which tbh is mostly streaming video clips on FB Watch. Obviously everything is still going on over there.. but I've seen so few headlines or newsclips lately. I do recall seeing a couple about buildings in Russia being blown up/caught on fire, so that's good.


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07 Jul 2022, 7:54 am

State Duma of the Russian Federation hints to USA about the return of Alaska
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/6/7356694/

Quote:
ALONA MAZURENKO — WEDNESDAY, 6 JULY 2022, 18:33

Vyacheslav Volodin, Head of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, has said that the USA should remember that Alaska was Russian and the Russian Federation can start "reclaiming" it.

Source: Pro-Kremlin publication "RBC"

Quote: "Let America always remember: there is a part of its (Russia's – ed.) territory there – Alaska. So when they start trying to dispose of our resources abroad, before doing so, they should think about the fact that we have something to reclaim too...

We do not interfere in their internal affairs, and they have been saying for decades that everything that is happening to them, the elections of all their presidents, is because of Russia's interference. That's not how you respect your presidents. Well, what do you say? One of them was bad, now the other is falling off the bike. Well, here we are again."

Details: Meanwhile, Pyotr Tolstoy, Vice-Speaker of the State Duma of the Russian Federation has proposed holding a referendum in Alaska.

The Russian Empire sold Alaska to the United States in the second half of the 19th century.


It made me laugh, sorry. :lol:


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funeralxempire
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07 Jul 2022, 5:27 pm

SkinnedWolf wrote:
State Duma of the Russian Federation hints to USA about the return of Alaska
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/07/6/7356694/
Quote:
ALONA MAZURENKO — WEDNESDAY, 6 JULY 2022, 18:33

Vyacheslav Volodin, Head of the State Duma of the Russian Federation, has said that the USA should remember that Alaska was Russian and the Russian Federation can start "reclaiming" it.

Source: Pro-Kremlin publication "RBC"

Quote: "Let America always remember: there is a part of its (Russia's – ed.) territory there – Alaska. So when they start trying to dispose of our resources abroad, before doing so, they should think about the fact that we have something to reclaim too...

We do not interfere in their internal affairs, and they have been saying for decades that everything that is happening to them, the elections of all their presidents, is because of Russia's interference. That's not how you respect your presidents. Well, what do you say? One of them was bad, now the other is falling off the bike. Well, here we are again."

Details: Meanwhile, Pyotr Tolstoy, Vice-Speaker of the State Duma of the Russian Federation has proposed holding a referendum in Alaska.

The Russian Empire sold Alaska to the United States in the second half of the 19th century.


It made me laugh, sorry. :lol:


What's next, France wants Louisiana back?

Well, they're both more likely than Haiti ever being treated fairly and being repaid for being forced to pay damages to France after throwing the French out.


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Tross
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08 Jul 2022, 3:40 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Pretty nice donation.. $20M worth:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-tv ... 43881.html

Also, it's pretty crazy how the war in Ukraine has all but completely disappeared from the news sources I use - which tbh is mostly streaming video clips on FB Watch. Obviously everything is still going on over there.. but I've seen so few headlines or newsclips lately. I do recall seeing a couple about buildings in Russia being blown up/caught on fire, so that's good.
Yeah, it goes to show just how reliable local media is. It follows whatever the latest trending topic is and drops it when it perceives its audience has lost interest. Never mind that the war in Ukraine is far more important than a lot of stuff news does more typically cover. :roll: We're talking the future of democracy vs fascism here.

I just Google my Ukraine Crisis news, personally. There's also a really excellent subreddit that posts up to date news: https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/

As a bonus, the comments in that subreddit seem generally optimistic, and aren't filled with Russian trolls or pessimists like the comments section for articles on news sites that allow them seem to be.



Mikah
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08 Jul 2022, 4:57 pm

Putin again:

https://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/68836

If the West wanted to provoke a conflict in order to move on to a new stage in the fight against Russia and a new stage in containing our country, we can say that it has succeeded to a certain extent. A war was unleashed, and the sanctions were imposed. Under normal circumstances, it would probably be difficult to accomplish this.

But here is what I would you like to make clear. They should have realised that they would lose from the very beginning of our special military operation, because this operation also means the beginning of a radical breakdown of the US-style world order. This is the beginning of the transition from liberal-globalist American egocentrism to a truly multipolar world based not on self-serving rules made up by someone for their own needs, behind which there is nothing but striving for hegemony, not on hypocritical double standards, but on international law and the genuine sovereignty of nations and civilisations, on their will to live their historical destiny, with their own values and traditions, and to align cooperation on the basis of democracy, justice and equality.

Everyone should understand that this process cannot be stopped. The course of history is inexorable, and the collective West’s attempts to impose its new world order on the rest of the world are doomed.

At the same time, I want to say and emphasise that we have many supporters, including in the United States and Europe, and even more so on other continents and in other countries. And there will be more, no doubt about that.

To reiterate, even in the countries that are still satellites of the United States, there is a growing understanding that their ruling elites’ blind obedience to their overlord, as a rule, does not necessarily coincide with their national interests, and most often simply and even radically contradicts them. Eventually, everyone will have to face this growing sentiment in society.

Today, these ruling elites are raising the degree to which they manipulate the public consciousness right before our eyes. The ruling classes of the Western countries, which are supranational and globalist in nature, realised that their policies are increasingly detached from reality, common sense and the truth, and they have started resorting to openly despotic methods.

The West, which once declared such principles of democracy as freedom of speech, pluralism and respect for dissenting opinions, has now degenerated into the opposite: totalitarianism. This includes censorship, media bans, and the arbitrary treatment of journalists and public figures.

These kinds of prohibitions have been extended not only to the information space, but also to politics, culture, education, and art – to all spheres of public life in the Western countries. And, they are imposing this on the world; they are trying to impose this model, a model of totalitarian liberalism, including the notorious cancel culture of widespread bans.

However, the truth and reality is that the people in most of these countries do not want this life or this future, and really do not want the formal semblance of sovereignty, they want substantive, real sovereignty and are simply tired of kneeling, of humiliating themselves before those who consider themselves exceptional, and of serving their interests even to their own detriment.

Today we hear that they want to defeat us on the battlefield. Well, what can I say? Let them try.


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20 Jul 2022, 12:44 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-06/ukraine-cautious-as-turkey-russia-push-black-sea-grain-deal?utm_source=google&utm_medium=bd&utm_campaign=HP&cmpId=GP.HP
Ukraine Cautious as Turkey, Russia Push Black Sea Grain Deal

Quote:
-Russia, Turkey offer corridor to ship crops from Odesa port
-Invasion has disrupted vital food supplies to global buyers


Turkey and Russia have reached a tentative deal to restart shipments of Ukraine’s agricultural products from a key Black Sea port, but Kyiv remains skeptical of the proposed pact, according to people familiar with the discussions.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s government has offered military help to clear mines off the coast of Odesa and escort grain ships but Ukraine has yet to endorse the plan, worried that removing defenses could leave the vital port open to Russian attack, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss matters that aren’t yet public. Turkey hopes that a United Nations endorsement of the proposal could allay security concerns, the people said.


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xenon13
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22 Jul 2022, 1:56 pm

The story of the Ukraine is how a bunch of exiles in North America have been able to totally dominate the people who actually live there, to the point that the political power of the people the current Kiev regime describes as "colorado beetles" has been systematically undermined since independence. They get bait and switched, Oranged Revolutioned, and Maidaned to political death. No wonder they greet Russians as liberators. Enough is enough!

The latest bait and switch was Zelensky. The southern and eastern voters put him there because he ran on peace. He U-turned very quickly and considering he was backed by Kolomoiski, the whole thing resembles a planned con job.



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22 Jul 2022, 8:22 pm

Sputnik: Russia, Ukraine Sign UN-Mediated Grain Deal in Istanbu

Quote:
UNITED NATIONS (Sputnik) - Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar and Ukrainian Infrastructure Minister Oleksandr Kubrakov signed a UN-brokered grain deal in Istanbul on Friday.

Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu said that two documents were signed in Istanbul aimed at solving the issue of food and grain exports to the global market.

The defense minister added that the first document stipulates the United Nations to facilitate removal of restrictions on exports of Russian agricultural products.

"The second document defines the algorithm for the export of Ukrainian agricultural products from the Black Sea ports controlled by Ukraine," Shoigu said, adding that Kiev is responsible for security in Ukrainian territorial waters, including demining.

In addition, the minister said that the deal would be impossible without active mediating role of Turkey and the UN. Shoigu promised that Russia will not take advantage of demining and opening of Ukrainian ports.

Commenting on the signed memorandum, a UN official explained that the Black Sea grain initiative is a renewable 120-day deal, but it should continue until the Russia-Ukraine conflict ends. The official added that it will take weeks to see ships transport grain in the Black Sea.

Inspection teams under control of the Joint Coordination Center will make sure that vessels heading to Ukraine are not used to ship weapons to Ukraine, he said.

"There will be ships monitored across the Black Sea ... there will be an inspection of ships going in these ports ... The UN inspection team will be set up. The ships will be inspected making sure that there will be no weapons going into Ukraine," the UN official told briefing.

The export of Ukraine grain, foodstuff, fertilizer [will be conduced] across from the three ports, Odessa and two related ports," the UN official said.

Russia and Ukraine have agreed to ensure a safe passage of vessels shipping grain in the Black Sea and abstain from attacking them.

Grain supplies from Ukraine ceased earlier this year amid Russia's special military operation in the country, raising concerns about acute food shortages across the globe. The West has been blaming Russia for blocking shipments of grain, sunflower and fertilizers from Ukraine. Moscow has repeatedly denied the accusations, noting that the crisis was provoked by Ukrainian forces, who had mined the Black Sea ports. The Kremlin also stressed that Western sanctions against Russian agricultural exports have contributed to the issue.


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22 Jul 2022, 10:49 pm

Well as you can see Russia is still invading and the sanctions so far have not stopped them. What was the point of every NATO nation making everything more expensive for themselves, just to stick to Russia, who totally can take being sticked to.



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23 Jul 2022, 3:59 am

The economic warfare was doomed to fail. Let me explain something. A true great power is self-sufficient in food, fuel, and war materials. Nazi Germany(! !!) was NOT so self-sufficient, it could not produce sufficient food nor fuel yet they held out for SIX YEARS! How can they have a shadow of a chance against Russia? They think this is a "war of choice"... oh no it's not. They do NOT want their influence in Ukraine destroyed by a national project by former Austrian territory inhabitants to create Anti-Russia and persecute pro-Russian people there to help the US dominate Russia? NEVER! Western leaders are running about like chickens with their heads cut off!



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26 Jul 2022, 10:01 pm

Are you saying Western leaders will have to give back into Russia eventually?



xenon13
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26 Jul 2022, 11:59 pm

The pig-headedness of Western leaders who INSIST that Ukraine is unified under the Lemberg-prairie ukie vision and who hate Russia and claim it committed genocide against them, etc, in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is bitterly divided with half the population pretty much considering themselves to be Russian, that is the most infuriating thing about all of this. Their entire underpinning of this is based upon a lie. Then they may admit that it is a lie but that it's somehow necessary that those "wayward Ukrainians" be made into good Lemberg Bandera-lovers who hate Russia and admit their relatives died for the wrong side in World War II... the hatred for these people in the West is palpable. They think that Russia needs to be punished for her past sins by having people who look to Russia be punished until they are "transformed". They certainly cannot have any say in terms of political power... they are in the way of the Eternal Eastward March of the Euro-Atlantic Order! The hatred also towards the people in Crimea... the West dreams of ethnic cleansing, massacres, and other punishments of the people there.



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27 Jul 2022, 12:04 am

I expect that Moldovan leader Maira Sandu will give a medal to the Ukrainian commander who sent a US-provided Switchblade drone across the border into Russia and murdered at least one of her countrymen, to show to the Euro-Atlantic Order that her devotion to that order is far greater than her devotion to her own people. It shows the total shamelessness of the Kiev regime that they released this video of a useless murder of civilians.



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27 Jul 2022, 12:10 am

xenon13 wrote:
The pig-headedness of Western leaders who INSIST that Ukraine is unified under the Lemberg-prairie ukie vision and who hate Russia and claim it committed genocide against them, etc, in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is bitterly divided with half the population pretty much considering themselves to be Russian, that is the most infuriating thing about all of this. Their entire underpinning of this is based upon a lie. Then they may admit that it is a lie but that it's somehow necessary that those "wayward Ukrainians" be made into good Lemberg Bandera-lovers who hate Russia and admit their relatives died for the wrong side in World War II... the hatred for these people in the West is palpable. They think that Russia needs to be punished for her past sins by having people who look to Russia be punished until they are "transformed". They certainly cannot have any say in terms of political power... they are in the way of the Eternal Eastward March of the Euro-Atlantic Order! The hatred also towards the people in Crimea... the West dreams of ethnic cleansing, massacres, and other punishments of the people there.

The blame for this is on both sides.

There were many Russian speaking people living there when the Soviet Union collapsed (whether they identified themselves as Russians / Ukrainians or even Soviets)

As a nation-state, Ukraine has its own demand for stability. This echoes the western narrative.
At the beginning, they advocated a more tolerant "Ukrainian identity", that is, Ukrainian citizens.

However, the description promoted by the Russian side is that "Russian speakers are Russians".

People caught between the two concepts will be sacrificed in the nationalism of both sides.


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