Opinions on Disclosing Gender Assigned At Birth

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Brainiac42
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01 Mar 2022, 12:28 pm

So, I got into a debate online in another forum regarding whether trans women/men should disclose that they have transitioned to their partners. I believe that this should be disclosed to the partner before dating/sexual intercourse. I believe that people should be able to do what they wish, as long as it doesn’t involve violence/death. I have no real issue with transitioning, but I think it is deceitful to hide this information from a partner, and could very well result in injury for the trans person disclosing it.

Some people in this forum went so far as to say the trans person should be able to hide this information even if they are marrying.

I want to note that I am not trying to be transphobic or bigoted, and I know this is a touchy subject. I just believe this information should be shared when in a relationship, and was curious on others viewpoints.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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01 Mar 2022, 12:48 pm

As long as you already know the transitioned partner will never need medical care the difference between X and Y chromosomes and body appearance and hence the disclosing of that difference won't be an issue.

Quote:
Pharmacodynamic differences in women include greater sensitivity to and enhanced effectiveness of beta blockers, opioids, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, and typical antipsychotics. Additionally, women are 50 to 75 percent more likely than men to experience an adverse drug reaction. Because women are prone to torsades de pointes, medications known to prolong the QT interval should be used with caution. Women should receive lower dosages of digoxin and have lower serum concentration targets than men because of higher mortality rates.

The physiologic differences between men and women play an important role in disease prevalence and outcomes.


https://www.aafp.org/afp/2009/1201/p1254.html


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IsabellaLinton
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01 Mar 2022, 2:45 pm

I think it matters.
I believe partners should trust each other enough to share it all (medical and emotional).
What if the partner wants children?

My brother's wife didn't disclose that she had suffered uterine cancer, and didn't have a uterus.
She was still going for cancer treatment without telling him.
He thought they were going to have children together (the natural way).

It was a breach of trust which eventually ended their marriage.



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01 Mar 2022, 4:13 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
So, I got into a debate online in another forum regarding whether trans women/men should disclose that they have transitioned to their partners. I believe that this should be disclosed to the partner before dating/sexual intercourse.

Certainly it should be disclosed before any serious commitment is made, such as marriage.

Not disclosing it before the first date is less of an issue, but still a likely time waster for both parties, it seems to me, if the person they are dating is either strongly heterosexual or strongly gay/lesbian, and especially if the person they are dating wants to have children.

It seems to me that most transgender people would be best off dating bisexual/pansexual people. Pansexual people, by definition, have no issue with dating trans people.

Relevant personal background: I'm bisexual/pansexual and gender-nonconforming but not trans. I have always preferred social circles in which a wide variety of people, including trans people, were socially accepted (at least for the most part) -- even back in the early 1980's. Within that context I briefly dated a few transwomen when I was younger, and there was no need for them to hide.

I hope there are many more such social circles today, although there are still, alas, too many places where trans people are not accepted.


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01 Mar 2022, 8:17 pm

I think a realistic assessment would be that trans people are best advise to disclose this before engaging in sexual acts - if only to avoid accidentally triggering "trans-panic".
I don't think the trans panic defense is in any way justified, but I also don't believe we're anywhere near general trans-acceptance.
I hope that humanity will get there soon, but I believe that will take another generation in the west, not to speak of the rest of the world.


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ToughDiamond
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02 Mar 2022, 2:31 pm

When I was in circulation I'd have wanted to know about that. It might have made a difference, it might not, but I'd have wanted to know.



The_Walrus
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02 Mar 2022, 2:54 pm

You are under no obligation to disclose that sort of thing if you don't want to.

You probably should disclose your genitals before sex to avoid surprises, but no need to say if they were once different. And if you're not planning on showing your genitals, no obligation at all.



Brainiac42
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02 Mar 2022, 4:46 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
You are under no obligation to disclose that sort of thing if you don't want to.

You probably should disclose your genitals before sex to avoid surprises, but no need to say if they were once different. And if you're not planning on showing your genitals, no obligation at all.


Legally you are not obligated to in the U.S, but morally I believe you should. Why do you disagree?



The_Walrus
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02 Mar 2022, 5:59 pm

Brainiac42 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
You are under no obligation to disclose that sort of thing if you don't want to.

You probably should disclose your genitals before sex to avoid surprises, but no need to say if they were once different. And if you're not planning on showing your genitals, no obligation at all.


Legally you are not obligated to in the U.S, but morally I believe you should. Why do you disagree?

It isn't any of your business if your sexual partners are trans. Nobody has any moral obligation to disclose private medical information just because they have sex with someone, unless it's actually relevant like STD status or could lead to unwanted pregnancy. And of course, we mustn't overlook that it isn't easy to tell if someone is transphobic before "coming out". It might not be safe to do so, and the trans person would be putting their life at risk.

Why do you think there is a moral obligation?



Brainiac42
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02 Mar 2022, 6:17 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
You are under no obligation to disclose that sort of thing if you don't want to.

You probably should disclose your genitals before sex to avoid surprises, but no need to say if they were once different. And if you're not planning on showing your genitals, no obligation at all.


Legally you are not obligated to in the U.S, but morally I believe you should. Why do you disagree?

It isn't any of your business if your sexual partners are trans. Nobody has any moral obligation to disclose private medical information just because they have sex with someone, unless it's actually relevant like STD status or could lead to unwanted pregnancy. And of course, we mustn't overlook that it isn't easy to tell if someone is transphobic before "coming out". It might not be safe to do so, and the trans person would be putting their life at risk.

Why do you think there is a moral obligation?


Many people would be uncomfortable sleeping with someone who was assigned the same sex as them at birth. A lot of LGBTQIA+ people would be uncomfortable sleeping with someone who was assigned the opposite sex of them at birth. Whether this is wrong or right to anyone is irrelevant, as anyone is allowed to say no to sex for any reason. If the person having sex would have said no if they knew the person was trans, but wasn’t told, this is rape by deception in my eyes. It is morally incorrect.

The forum post that I responded to on Reddit was a post asking for advice, because a straight male was talking to a woman, and they were planning to have intercourse. Since this isn’t the adult forum I will just say she did not want to have sex the typical way that two heterosexual people do, but he thought nothing of it. After they had sex, he realized that she was MTF, and additionally had not had bottom surgery. He felt tricked, deceived, and traumatized. That is morally incorrect.



DW_a_mom
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03 Mar 2022, 2:06 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:

It was a breach of trust which eventually ended their marriage.


I agree. No one HAS to disclose anything, but partners should WANT to disclose ALL major life events from their history. To not do so indicates you aren't willing to give your partner your whole self.


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The_Walrus
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03 Mar 2022, 2:51 am

Brainiac42 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Brainiac42 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
You are under no obligation to disclose that sort of thing if you don't want to.

You probably should disclose your genitals before sex to avoid surprises, but no need to say if they were once different. And if you're not planning on showing your genitals, no obligation at all.


Legally you are not obligated to in the U.S, but morally I believe you should. Why do you disagree?

It isn't any of your business if your sexual partners are trans. Nobody has any moral obligation to disclose private medical information just because they have sex with someone, unless it's actually relevant like STD status or could lead to unwanted pregnancy. And of course, we mustn't overlook that it isn't easy to tell if someone is transphobic before "coming out". It might not be safe to do so, and the trans person would be putting their life at risk.

Why do you think there is a moral obligation?


Many people would be uncomfortable sleeping with someone who was assigned the same sex as them at birth. A lot of LGBTQIA+ people would be uncomfortable sleeping with someone who was assigned the opposite sex of them at birth. Whether this is wrong or right to anyone is irrelevant, as anyone is allowed to say no to sex for any reason. If the person having sex would have said no if they knew the person was trans, but wasn’t told, this is rape by deception in my eyes. It is morally incorrect.

The forum post that I responded to on Reddit was a post asking for advice, because a straight male was talking to a woman, and they were planning to have intercourse. Since this isn’t the adult forum I will just say she did not want to have sex the typical way that two heterosexual people do, but he thought nothing of it. After they had sex, he realized that she was MTF, and additionally had not had bottom surgery. He felt tricked, deceived, and traumatized. That is morally incorrect.

I think that specific example you have given comes under “disclosing genitals”, and I was careful to draw that distinction.

There are many reasons why someone might not be comfortable sleeping with someone, and it is not reasonably possible to disclose them all. For example, they could be uncomfortable if you were born abroad; one of your grandparents has a different ethnicity; you are straight, gay, bisexual, or pansexual; you have had a certain number of sexual partners; you used to work for a certain company; you hold a belief that they disagree with; you are autistic; you have or haven’t had children.

The idea that partners will automatically disclose everything about themselves before having sex or going on a date is quaint.

Singling out trans status as the one thing that people are required to disclose is transphobic. Not necessarily maliciously so of course, but it still discriminates against trans people.



The Grand Inquisitor
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04 Mar 2022, 4:44 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
There are many reasons why someone might not be comfortable sleeping with someone, and it is not reasonably possible to disclose them all. For example, they could be uncomfortable if you were born abroad; one of your grandparents has a different ethnicity; you are straight, gay, bisexual, or pansexual; you have had a certain number of sexual partners; you used to work for a certain company; you hold a belief that they disagree with; you are autistic; you have or haven’t had children.

The idea that partners will automatically disclose everything about themselves before having sex or going on a date is quaint.

Singling out trans status as the one thing that people are required to disclose is transphobic. Not necessarily maliciously so of course, but it still discriminates against trans people.

Do you really think there's a comparable amount of people who are uncomfortable sleeping with somebody born abroad, or somebody whose grandparent was a different ethnicity, as there are people who are uncomfortable sleeping with somebody who was born the opposite sex of the sex that individual is attracted to?

The difference between transgenderism and the other traits you mentioned is a potential violation of the individual's sexuality. I think we can respect trans people's identity, pronouns and right to be who they are without pretending that they are exactly the same as a cis person of the gender they identify as, or that that distinction doesn't matter to a significant portion of the population when it comes to dating and sex. However you might feel about this, there are clearly a lot of people, probably the majority of people who aren't pansexual or bisexual, for whom the thought of sleeping with someone who was born the opposite sex of the sex they're attracted to is off-putting or repulsive.

I don't have stats, but it certainly seems to me that there would be meaningfully fewer people who would be uncomfortable with any of the other traits you mentioned, relative to those who would be uncomfortable finding out they've slept with someone who wasn't born the sex they thought that person was born. Moreover, I'd imagine the degree of discomfort is also generally greater in the latter scenario.

We should care about informed consent. If you think that you possess any undisclosed trait that has a reasonably high chance of being off-putting to a would-be sexual partner, you ought to disclose it. As a virgin, I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with someone without disclosing my sexual inexperience, because there are enough women for whom that would be a deal-breaker that I feel obligated to ensure that anyone who chooses to sleep with me is doing so with that information.



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05 Mar 2022, 12:47 am

I think disclosing upon dating does matter because maybe they want to have kids, not adopt, and a trans person wouldn't be able to give them any if they have the same sex organs. Imagine a cis woman dating a guy and it turns out he was assigned female at birth, there would be no penis and sperm to get the cis woman pregnant.

Also it's about trust so if they hid this part of them, it might hurt the cis person because they didn't trust them enough to tell them.


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05 Mar 2022, 1:12 am

Nobody should have to disclose anything about their past, to a sexual or romantic partner. Everyone has stuff they don't wanna talk about.

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