Why I don't think there are "Xinjiang atrocities"?

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SkinnedWolf
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12 Aug 2022, 4:14 pm

Second hand information from Uighur form Southern Xinjiang:

Quote:
I'm in a university in the south. A Uighur roommate has lived with us for four years and has a good relationship. We heard a lot from him about different views and Xinjiang from Uighurs. I'll just tell you objectively what I've heard and seen.

1. First of all, my roommate is from a relatively poor small county in southern Xinjiang, but his family is not poor

2. Ethnic relations. He clearly told us that ethnic relations in Xinjiang in recent years are not satisfactory. In the University, they can get along with strangers like us, but they seldom deal with Han students from Xinjiang, for fear of causing trouble.

3. In Xinjiang, their ethnic minorities are generally afraid of the police. According to him, in the past few years, the police often checked mobile phones to fight terrorism. But when you don't pay attention, they give you the next video on your mobile phone thich publicize the terrorist attacks and ask you for money, or else...

4. Political sensitivity is extremely high. We majored in history and politics. We always talked about various sensitive historical issues at night, and he refused to speak.

5. They are all very pessimistic about the future development of Xinjiang, and almost no one plans to go back. Now he has gone to Suzhou.

6. Xinjiang students in our school generally refuse to go home in winter and summer vacation. Take my roommate as an example. He said that as soon as he came home, he was asked by the people of the county government to write papers and reports for them. He had to go for one month during the two months of the summer vacation. Civil servants watched TV dramas beside them. He was caught once in his freshman year. He was frightened and never returned to Xinjiang again.

7. What is Xinjiang concentration camp. According to him, he has never seen anything like extermination or massacre. This is more like an education camp.
You may be asked to stay there for a few days because of all kinds of trivial matters, mainly prohibiting entertainment and receiving political education.
But - this stuff is f*****g at your own expense, 100 RMB a day. So if someone offends the village head or something, they definitely have a way to make these farmers feel uncomfortable.

8. Some interesting things. He sometimes goes to the Great Mosque in C city to buy food. There is a market there every Friday. Several times I went with him, and he always used my mobile phone to navigate. According to him, Uighur students dare not use this word on their mobile phones, otherwise they will be questioned by the police, so he always borrows our mobile phones when he goes there.

9. Although netizens complain about the preferential treatment of ethnic minorities every day, I would like to talk about the discrimination I experienced.
Once, six of our classmates, four Uighurs and two Hans, played too late outside and booked a room in the hotel. As a result, the police broke the door in the middle of the night and drove the four of them out of the street without any reason. They also scolded us for saying that we should be careful not to commit any crimes.

Note: AFAIK, since the terrorist activities in the 21st century have become more and more frequent, people from Xinjiang who are working in the mainland are often distrusted when staying in hotels. Although the Uighurs in Xinjiang have additional distrust.
But this more radical approach seems to be aimed at "gathering Uighurs".


10. At the beginning of school in 2018, this guy brought seven or eight boxes of books from home to the dormitory. Because he doesn't usually read, we are curious.
He said that they were actually reforming. The Uyghur textbooks used in their high school will be abolished, and the Uyghur books collected in the county will be burned in the square. In addition, all the small bookstores in the county were closed, and only one Xinhua bookstore was left, so he urgently transferred his books to the school.

Note: This is the time point when the controversial Uyghur language textbook was discovered.
Damn, the behavior towards other Uyghur books is really close to cultural genocide.


11. Rich people over there will also emigrate, but they do not go to Europe and America. Many go to Turkey. Turkey has great influence in the local area. I think most of the imported snacks sent by his family are from Turkey.

12. The government is a troublemaker. During the "Xinjiang cotton" incident this year, there was a heavy snow there, with more than 30 degrees below zero at night. The whole village was called out to conduct an epidemic prevention drill at night.
And during that period, everyone sent a Tiktok account, and one person had to submit three small videos of praising Xinjiang.

Note: The part about epidemic has also occurred in other regions. Although this will certainly cause criticism.
Release videos of praise... Government workers in other regions or certain groups in universities are sometimes forced to do the same. But these contents are often too perfunctory to have a substantive impact.


13. Uygur students love to join the party. He also entered. According to him, it can be used as an amulet to protect him from bullying. The usefulness is in doubt.

14. Are they halal? They are generally determined not to eat pork, but in addition, they do not leave tobacco and alcohol.
Those Uyghur I know going to the disco every day and have been to every bars in C City. They usually do not engage in religious activities. I suspect that people like him who don't read books don't know as much about the Koran as I do.
For them, reading the Koran may be similar to reading Confucius and Mencius for us.
If you look at the internal network's aversion to Islam, you will think that the Taliban has already controlled Beijing.

Finally, I will talk about the current national contradictions. Why are they so sharp? Both sides feel that it is unfair to them.
To put it simply, it is the current policy issue.
At present, the ethnic ransom policy is actually implemented, which is similar to the British rule in India.
Bribe the high-level local princes and religious leaders through money, give preferential treatment in material interests, and at the same time suppress the local culture and original organizations through colonization.
With such a policy, the Han people feel that they are second-class citizens, while the Uygurs feel that they are attacking their own culture and want to exterminate them.


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SkinnedWolf
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13 Aug 2022, 3:52 am

Note: about book.
I asked the young Imam.
He claimed that many books in his family had also been confiscated a few years ago, mainly those fables/parable. But not all Uyghur books.

But no matter what the purpose, even if the content is really dangerous, I hope that these books at least have copies for study. :cry:


I asked him about the current Uighur language teaching in public schools. He claims that there is still a separate subject to teach Uyghur. (different from the main subjects previously taught in Uighur)


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SkinnedWolf
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25 Aug 2022, 5:18 pm

A person who visited Uighur friends in southern Xinjiang in 2019 and lived in their home for two months privately told me:

At that time, the Uyghur Koran was still openly displayed in local homes.

Religious ceremonies are prohibited in public places, but are allowed to be performed privately at home or in public in mosques. He believes that this is to prevent terrorists from planning attacks on the grounds of gathering religious activities at home, as in the past.

He once witnessed a Uighur being sent to a "school". Because other Uighurs in the village thought the Uighur was too extreme, they were afraid and reported him.

People his Uighur friends know who came back from the "school" said that there was no abuse in the school and there was boring learning. This time is weeks or months.

The village branch secretaries sometimes organize cultural activities that meet the characteristics of the local people, just like other villages in China.

There are two Han cadres sent to the village and hundreds of Uighur locals. He did not think that in the village he visited, there would be abuse of the local people by Han cadres, because the local people could easily fight back.

Some local men are extremely patriarchal, and their wives have seven or eight children.

He used VPN to browse external websites in Xinjiang.

He did not think that the Uighurs he had met were hiding anything.

He admitted that some of the bad things I raised might be true. But in his two months of local life, he did not notice anything except strict security control.


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SkinnedWolf
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26 Aug 2022, 1:13 am

The internal network Kazakh community is talking about that starting this month, they will be allowed to travel to Kazakhstan without a visa for 14 days.


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31 Aug 2022, 4:35 am

Privately ask two Uighurs about World Uyghur Congress:

A secularized Pro-establishment young Uighur university student:
"I hope the country will eliminate them. "
They are fomenting more ethnic conflicts.

A pious Uighur university student who advocates "more autonomy":
WUC is a group of idiots.
There is little evidence of the events they used in accusing the CCP. The false pictures they sent were immediately recognized by many people as pictures of other events.
They have driven many moderate Uighurs to a dead end. They spread rumors and incitement outside, and CCP suppressed Uighurs inside.
When Rebiya was a businesswoman, she forcibly occupied the real estate and real estate of several elderly female Uighurs. Later, CCP took advantage of them, and they often released Uyghur videos of revile Kadeer.


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SkinnedWolf
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01 Sep 2022, 5:19 am

OHCHR Assessment of human rights concerns in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, People’s Republic of China
“Serious human rights violations have been committed in XUAR in the context of the Government’s application of counter-terrorism and counter-“extremism” strategies. The implementation of these strategies, and associated policies in XUAR has led to interlocking patterns of severe and undue restrictions on a wide range of human rights. These patterns of restrictions are characterized by a discriminatory component, as the underlying acts often directly or indirectly affect Uyghur and other predominantly Muslim communities”
Comments from the external network Chinese community:

Quote:
The report investigates and lists the possible problems existing in Xinjiang

1. Lynching violence and abuse of Uygur "students" in the "re education camp"

2. In the "re education camp", the "students" are forced to use medicine and their right to medical treatment is restricted.

3. The detention of the "re education camp" is ethnically targeted, and the scope of attack is too large, and the judicial procedures are seriously inadequate.

4. The targeted restrictions on the religion and language of Uighurs in violation of the Chinese constitution. Uyghur is prohibited in schools.

5. The Uyghur's personal privacy and freedom of movement are restricted, and there are phenomena of forced migration and forced expropriation of Uyghur property by the government

6. Forced birth control for Uygur women

7. Involuntary labor

Quote:
I absolutely believe that the report of the United Nations is true, because these crimes are not limited to the Uighurs in Xinjiang. I don't know how many people still remember the labor camps and shelters in those days.

Quote:
The crimes committed by the Communist Party of China in this report will not be seen by ordinary Chinese as fake, because these crimes are widespread, not only in Xinjiang, not only in Uighurs.

In my opinion, the content of this report is actually very "ordinary".


I privately asked the Uighur I knew. He did not know the details of the "study class". However, their Uighur community did mention "white tablets", electroshock and "chairs with restraint function", but he was not sure whether it was common.

He thinks that the description of "forced labor" (at least the part of non "study class") is too exaggerated. He described the situation as "to put it mildly, everyone needs a job when the superior comes to inspect. If a couple runs a supermarket, the registered owner of the supermarket is the wife. Her husband needs to sign a labor contract with his wife to prove that he has a job."(otherwise, the government will force him to get a job)

He determined that the other parts were in line with what he knew.


Forced birth control is a common phenomenon in the implementation of family planning. It is also a common phenomenon that Chinese dialects are forbidden to be used in primary schools.
These actions seem to "cancel the immunity of ethnic minorities in these domains".


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03 Sep 2022, 11:22 am

I privately asked a Mongolian from Xinjiang, who is concerned about Xinjiang issues, about the coexistence of the "Quran in Uyghur" and the "destruction of books in Uyghur"

His statement: The Quran is not sensitive at all, because it is everywhere. What is really destroyed is those related to history and literature. Even foreign popular works translated in Uyghur.


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07 Sep 2022, 1:37 am

This left-wing report tells about the destruction of some Mazar in Xinjiang.

I asked the devout Salafiyyah Uyghur Muslim I knew. (he advocates greater autonomy.)

- What is Mazar?
- Tomb.
- I read a report that some Mazars were destroyed.
- That is GREAT! I strongly support CCP to destroy Mazar.
- It's said to be a holy place?
- No, Mazar worships demons/ghosts. It's an imitation. A product of feudal rule.
- It is said that some women praying for pregnancy will swallow the soil in Mazar.
- They are all idiots. Do you think this is effective? This is an obvious feudal superstition.

He was angry at the removal of the dome above the mosque.


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08 Sep 2022, 2:00 pm

A description that confirmed my conjecture that the "school" was divided into different levels. form 3 years ago.

Quote:
RELEVANCE: my company had Uighur interns in the summer before; The elder of a colleague's family was a reform through labor prisoner who was sent to Xinjiang in the past

Does the re education camp exist?

Yes, and many, with different security levels. But the aim is to educate some people about patriotism.
When I think with my toes, I will know that there will be no skinning and rape here. No matter how stupid the method used by the state, it is also to unite the Uyghur people. There is no motivation to do these things. It is not "black sun 731".

What is the situation of the re education camp?

According to the Uighur interns, the people inside should be sent to schools with low security level one by one according to their performance (yes, these organizations feel that they are similar to vocational schools).
In school, one thing is brainwashing. Of course, brainwashing is done all over the world. It's just very strong over there. There are slogans everywhere, which will make people feel Orwellian,
Another important thing is to learn skills. The goal is to let people who graduate from the re education camp have jobs directly (my understanding is that if they become workers with jobs to do, they can not only improve social productivity, but also reduce the cost of the government in maintaining social order).
In fact, many Uyghurs do not like to learn as much as he does, so it is easy for them to believe that the Han people want to harm them. There are also some people who live in poverty and need some way out.
Therefore, some educated Uighurs also think it is understandable, and of course, many feel that this kind of thing is not good.

What are they doing in the re education camp?

In view of the fact that only the re education camps with low security levels will let students go home, interns are not very clear about what those heavy places are. In lighter places, it is basically thought learning (singing, shouting slogans, making blackboard newspapers, and other unclear), as well as skill learning (hairdressing, computer technology, etc.).

Should we believe what the intern said?

Here I will introduce my colleague's grandfather as the control group. His place of reform through labor is Xinjiang. Everyone outside the firewall knows how ridiculous things would be in that era, but he would be relieved of his labor by the person in charge at that time because of his poor health and other reasons. We are all human beings. I really don't know what kind of mentality people have to spread the rumors of skinning.


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09 Sep 2022, 8:46 am

A Uyghur claimed that in the past, Putonghua was indeed advocated in many schools, and failure to speak mandarin would be criticized; But now with the improvement of students' mandarin level, there is no control, and everyone speaks their mother tongue.

Note: in the past, the mainstream was that ethnic minorities used minority languages to participate in the unified entrance examination of universities. This makes many Uyghurs completely unable to speak Mandarin.


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21 Sep 2022, 9:18 am

In the four major Uighur regions in southern Xinjiang, 15 years of compulsory education are now available. All local ethnic groups, including the Han, enjoy this.

China generally implements 9 year compulsory education.


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23 Sep 2022, 3:25 am

A Hui woman from Xinjiang tell me that the policy difference between Chen Quanguo(2017-2021) and his previous term was that the former term encouraged people to learn languages from each other, while Chen ask everyone to learn Mandarin.
Cross ethnic marriage is encouraged and rewarded. If cross ethnic marriage occurs, this example will get a lot of publicity.

She was quite dissatisfied with this, believing that the government did not encourage the existence of ethnic minorities.

But she denied the existence of forced marriage.


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DeathFlowerKing
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23 Sep 2022, 7:50 am

I think there are Xinjiang Atrocities.



SkinnedWolf
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23 Sep 2022, 9:55 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
I think there are Xinjiang Atrocities.

Yes, after checking more sources, I think this is excessive.
I will continue to ask the opinions of different local ethnic groups to document local policies.

SkinnedWolf wrote:
But she denied the existence of forced marriage.

A young Uighur woman from southern Xinjiang who was strongly dissatisfied with the CCP said that she had no idea whether there was forced marriages, at least she had never seen one.
She claims that in cross ethnic marriage, there are more Uighur women and Han men than Uighur men and Han women.
But other people we talked to thought that this might be because Uighur men who date Han women are less willing to marry them.


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SkinnedWolf
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24 Sep 2022, 11:05 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
A Uyghur claimed that in the past, Putonghua was indeed advocated in many schools, and failure to speak mandarin would be criticized; But now with the improvement of students' mandarin level, there is no control, and everyone speaks their mother tongue.

Note: in the past, the mainstream was that ethnic minorities used minority languages to participate in the unified entrance examination of universities. This makes many Uyghurs completely unable to speak Mandarin.

A Kazakh college student who still lives in Xinjiang told me that in his school, it was forbidden to speak non Mandarin in the whole school in 2017. After 2017, it is required to speak Mandarin only in the classroom.


He claims that the situation in the Kazakh gathering place was never serious. But countryside in the four Uighur and Kirgiz settlements in southern Xinjiang are very strict. He has 20 classmates from there, 7 of whom have father or mother who is/was "studying".

He claims that he can talk about sensitive matters on one-to-one social software without causing trouble, as well as using VPN.


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