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SpiralingCrow
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17 May 2022, 3:34 am

I was reading through some posts on the forum the other day. A man mentioned that in school, all the boys hated and bullied him but he got along with the girls. I'm a woman and all my past friendships with women do not survive. The relationship feels complicated and tends to end quite poorly. Often, I don't understand why it ends. I find my friendships with men either don't end at all or last longer. They also feel less complicated.

I began thinking about how the opposite sex may relate to those on the spectrum. Are NT men more forgiving of the "quirks" of ASD women? Are NT women more forgiving of the "quirks" of ASD men?
Has any one else found that friendships with the opposite sex less complicated? Or no there is no difference?



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17 May 2022, 3:42 am

I think it's just easier when you're obviously different anyway - and you already end up in a pre-selected group of those willing to accept differences.
That's also why when at the height of my social anxiety I had to ask someone for help at the uni campus, I chose a group including a disabled man - that made me feel safe that they're ready to accept someone different.


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17 May 2022, 3:47 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
I was reading through some posts on the forum the other day. A man mentioned that in school, all the boys hated and bullied him but he got along with the girls. I'm a woman and all my past friendships with women do not survive. The relationship feels complicated and tends to end quite poorly. Often, I don't understand why it ends. I find my friendships with men either don't end at all or last longer. They also feel less complicated.

I began thinking about how the opposite sex may relate to those on the spectrum. Are NT men more forgiving of the "quirks" of ASD women? Are NT women more forgiving of the "quirks" of ASD men?
Has any one else found that friendships with the opposite sex less complicated? Or no there is no difference?


No mention of skunks. Typical. 8)


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17 May 2022, 4:25 am

I've always had more female friends than male.
I've read that this is pretty common for autistics, even to the point that some get confused about their sexuality.

/Mats


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SpiralingCrow
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17 May 2022, 5:59 am

@magz I'm glad you were able to find a group that you felt safe with to work through your social anxiety. I just recently came to conclusion that I am on the spectrum, so I have never had such group with which to work through issues.

@Pepe Mon Cheri, skunks rule. But you know that :D

@ mohsart I haven't actually read about this yet. I will have dig deeper into it.



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17 May 2022, 6:16 am

I used to when I was younger. But they all got married and I found their wives didn't like them having female friends. Or the guy sort of used me as a placeholder for female company until he found a girlfriend and the other guys were his friends not mine and didn't keep in touch after that.

Now all my friends are women like me who never settled down. We are all way too quirky.



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17 May 2022, 6:27 am

Have found this conclusion about males . And friendship being , what appears to be more durable to be true .
On the Average …Have managed to remain on speaking terms with PePe here in spite of disagreements . And several males in Real Life ….And clearly PePe is a one off , in any crowd . But very few females for any longer periods of time . :roll: . With the exception of perhaps one or two here and there on Wrong Planet .


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Lost_dragon
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17 May 2022, 6:44 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
Has any one else found that friendships with the opposite sex less complicated? Or no there is no difference?


I'd say that personally I find both complicated albeit for different reasons.

With opposite sex friendships, I sometimes have to deal with external pressures. Outsiders tend to assume that the friendship is romantic and may even become annoyed that it isn't. "But I want you two to date!" "Well I don't"

I've had strangers try to connect with me by making remarks such as "Men, am I right?" and I just awkwardly agree (even though I'm not quite sure what their point is) so I can leave the conversation. Then there's the occasional misplaced jealousy where people dislike me because they assume I'm dating a guy they like. "What does he even see in you?" "....wait, you think we're dating?"

I can only assume people think I'm constantly jumping between relationships with the amount of times my friendships are assumed to be romantic. With same sex friendships, I'd say that it varies. I still have the same issue with people assuming romance, but the assumptions tend to come from within my friendship group rather than from strangers, acquaintances and distant friends. Sometimes I find friendships with straight women a little tricky to navigate. I'm always rather aware of how things might be misinterpreted and I am careful not to be too complimentary in case it comes across as flirting. Then there's the trap question of "if I were gay, would you have a crush on me?" or "just don't have a crush on me, alright?" because there's no easy way to respond. If you say no or that won't be an issue, then that can come across as an insult. Backing out of it by saying "Don't worry, I wouldn't hit on you because I know you're not interested", can imply that I would if they were interested and that can lead to "Wait, you think I'm attractive?" ...Please don't back me into this corner. Let me escape this conversation.

Fortunately, not everyone is like this. I remember I befriended a straight woman once and she remarked on how I must get such questions. A sigh of relief quite frankly. I told her she was correct and that I was glad she understood. At present, I have a couple of straight female friends but most of my female friends are gay, bisexual or pansexual. Most of my male friends are straight but a couple of them aren't. I get a fair amount of teasing from them about not having a girlfriend. You'd think my friendships with women in the community would be even trickier, but surprisingly they tend to go smoother. This isn't meant as insult to straight women. I really appreciate friendships where I can excitedly ask about the guys they like and they'll greet me with the same enthusiasm about who I like. Unfortunately, I've had friendships where the group will excitedly talk about who they like and if I try to join in the conversation awkwardly dies.


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17 May 2022, 7:06 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
Has any one else found that friendships with the opposite sex less complicated? Or no there is no difference?


I'd say that personally I find both complicated albeit for different reasons.

With opposite sex friendships, I sometimes have to deal with external pressures. Outsiders tend to assume that the friendship is romantic and may even become annoyed that it isn't. "But I want you two to date!" "Well I don't"

I've had strangers try to connect with me by making remarks such as "Men, am I right?" and I just awkwardly agree (even though I'm not quite sure what their point is) so I can leave the conversation. Then there's the occasional misplaced jealousy where people dislike me because they assume I'm dating a guy they like. "What does he even see in you?" "....wait, you think we're dating?"

I can only assume people think I'm constantly jumping between relationships with the amount of times my friendships are assumed to be romantic. With same sex friendships, I'd say that it varies. I still have the same issue with people assuming romance, but the assumptions tend to come from within my friendship group rather than from strangers, acquaintances and distant friends. Sometimes I find friendships with straight women a little tricky to navigate. I'm always rather aware of how things might be misinterpreted and I am careful not to be too complimentary in case it comes across as flirting. Then there's the trap question of "if I were gay, would you have a crush on me?" or "just don't have a crush on me, alright?" because there's no easy way to respond. If you say no or that won't be an issue, then that can come across as an insult. Backing out of it by saying "Don't worry, I wouldn't hit on you because I know you're not interested", can imply that I would if they were interested and that can lead to "Wait, you think I'm attractive?" ...Please don't back me into this corner. Let me escape this conversation.

Fortunately, not everyone is like this. I remember I befriended a straight woman once and she remarked on how I must get such questions. A sigh of relief quite frankly. I told her she was correct and that I was glad she understood. At present, I have a couple of straight female friends but most of my female friends are gay, bisexual or pansexual. Most of my male friends are straight but a couple of them aren't. I get a fair amount of teasing from them about not having a girlfriend. You'd think my friendships with women in the community would be even trickier, but surprisingly they tend to go smoother. This isn't meant as insult to straight women. I really appreciate friendships where I can excitedly ask about the guys they like and they'll greet me with the same enthusiasm about who I like. Unfortunately, I've had friendships where the group will excitedly talk about who they like and if I try to join in the conversation awkwardly dies.


Oh my … the fate of being a socially active younger person…….. Not doing too badly .. to have to navigate your way through a social minefield . Much information to process . . . . And address…..not always a venue that Aspies do well in .

Observing PePe getting big headed and prevents herself from sticking a pin in it , to see if it explodes .?


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17 May 2022, 7:41 am

When I was very young I enjoyed my same-gendered (female) friend; she was probably ND. In the middle of life (teens-mid 30s), I had opposite-gendered (male) friends. In my 40s I made same-gendered (female) friends again. (Like hurtloam, my male friends got married and most of their wives don't like me, on principal.)

As an adolescent/young adult I didn't relate to or meet the expectations of female friends. I wanted to play and be active and they wanted to... talk about... stuff, relationships and the like. This same thing is occurring with my 10yo ASD daughter. It's easier for her to play basketball with the boys than sit with the girls. She still has two female friends (both on the social fringe themselves), but middle school approaches and those will likely fall away. I enrolled her in a social skills group to aid in the transition (boost her confidence). Ironically for me, decades past adolescence, I have women-friends and we spend hours talking about... stuff, relationships and the like. I guess we have enough in common now.



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17 May 2022, 9:05 am

I tend to find guys easier to befriend. But I thought guys in general were just easier to build relationships with because they aren't as shallow as most women. Usually men on the spectrum find it harder to find a girlfriend than women on the spectrum, and usually women on the spectrum find it harder to make friends with their female peers. I figured if I was an Aspie guy I'd probably have more (NT male) friends to go out and do stuff with than I do as an Aspie woman with NT females. But if I was an Aspie guy I'd probably be single and crying out for a girlfriend.

Most NT women are shallow. They only want to be friends with other women that wear make-up and take a lot of time grooming themselves to look beautiful, and they only want to date guys that aren't nerdy and are confident and popular. Tomboy girls like me don't stand a chance in the friendship world. But guys don't seem to care that I'm a tomboy. They just see me for me and not for what I look like.


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17 May 2022, 9:56 am

When I was little I imprinted on my dad, my brother, and my male cousin who lived next door. I always wanted to emulate my brother and everything he did (e.g., his taste in music, his TV shows). He had a lot of guy friends and I really looked up to them as well. Even now I tend to feel more relaxed and comfortable with men. When I'm with women I feel so completely estranged it's like I'm from another planet. I can't relate to the things they talk about or the way they mask, follow trends, and understand nuance. (Apologies for these sexist generalisations).

In general, men seem to have a better sense of humour. They're also more emotionally vulnerable than women, in my opinion. I feel like women put up a facade or play head games, whereas men will tell you straight out when they're angry or bored. They tend to be a lot more direct and have more distinct personalities than women, who are prone to copying one another in clothing, interests, vocabulary, and behaviour.

Apologies again for any stereotypes. This is all a sociological observation and not meant to imply sexism.



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17 May 2022, 10:01 am

Oh by the way as a child I found it easy to be friends with other girls. I only had one male friend that I played with that lived in my street, because he was the nearest child to play with outside of school. Otherwise at school I always played with other girls and I hardly ever played with boys.

But as an adult I find making friends with men easier. But sometimes men are a bit afraid of getting too close to women who are in relationships in case they think they're a threat. Most of my male friends are married though.


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17 May 2022, 10:31 am

I wouldn't say I was a tomboy growing up. I loved my brother's music and wanted to be like him, but I think that's because he was my only role model and I didn't have any alternatives. I had dozens of cousins but they all lived in other countries so I seldom saw them. The only other families on our street were my grandparents, my aunt/uncle, and one boy cousin. I kind of think of us like Dill, Scout, and Jem from To Kill a Mockingbird because we were always off on an adventure of some sort: climbing trees and getting into mischief.

My mother wasn't very nurturing. She didn't play with me, put my hair in ponytails, or even teach me "girl" things like cooking and cleaning. She was happy enough if I stayed in my room reading books, or if I ran around playing with my brother and his friends. I always wonder what would have happened if I had an older sister or some sort of girl to guide me. Looking back I can see my aunt next door loved me a lot. I wish I had spent more time with her.

As for tomboy, maybe I have the wrong impression of what that means. I didn't feel like a boy and I didn't want to be a boy. I didn't play any sports other than swimming, skating, and horseback riding. My brother fixed cars and did a lot of mechanical things but I wasn't interested in any of that. He played guitar but I wasn't interested in that either, even though I ran around listening to KISS and Jethro Tull as a five year old. I took lessons in ballet, tap dance and gymnastics, which are usually more for girls. I liked those for their own merits, but I still didn't want to spend time with other girls.

From an early age I knew I was my own person and I wouldn't follow any prescribed gender norms. Most of the time I just lived in my head in a series of dreamworlds like when I was married to Elton John (later Ozzy). I escaped to my books and I loved animals far more than people or things. I'm still that way now. I don't present as NB or masculine. I love wearing sundresses and pretty clothes for sensory reasons, and I have long hair that's usually up in some sort of old-fashioned twist or plait. That's because I like fancy patterns, the same way I like knitting, macrame, or tying knots when I go boating. On the inside I don't have a gender at all. I'm just a free-floating mind who likes to observe the world.



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17 May 2022, 12:04 pm

Yeah, I prefer hanging out with men. At work, male colleagues are the easiest to get along with. Female colleagues and friends not so much if they have insecurities about their appearance - they take that s**t out on other women.

I get on fine with quirky women too, so long as they have reached a stage where they're comfortable with being different.

I stay away from anyone who likes to b***h and gossip.



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17 May 2022, 1:28 pm

So many great posts. Thanks so much for sharing.

I did have female friends in grammer school up through high school. Those were close friendships but we were brought together through convenience rather than similar interests. The glue might have that we were not part of the "in" crowd. As we got older the cracks would show. My interests really started to deviate so far from theirs it became impossible to maintain the friendship. In college, I did have female friends but those ended probably mostly due to misunderstanding and poor communication. At this point I find relate to men better. I find they are more apt to say what they mean and let go of things more easily.