"I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States"

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Sonic200
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18 May 2022, 8:45 pm



"I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."



kitesandtrainsandcats
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18 May 2022, 8:52 pm

I've always wondered why the first thing it has people pledge allegiance to is a couple yards of fabric, that is so silly.

"I pledge allegiance to this arbitrary length of fabric, and, oh yeah, guess I'd better do that before I forget, and after that I pledge allegiance to the actual country of real actual people."

Weird.

So very, very, very, weird.

But I guess it may explain why so many in this country seem to value style & symbols far more than substance.


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Twilightprincess
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18 May 2022, 9:12 pm

It’s a pretty strange tradition which feels kind of icky to me.



cyberdad
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18 May 2022, 9:25 pm

Sonic200 wrote:


"I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


And?



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18 May 2022, 10:46 pm

I live in Canada so we never did this kind of thing. But I went to a religious school so we had to say The Lord's Prayer before class each morning. Funny how adults make kids say this stuff while they're really too young to understand any of it. Like brainwashing...

According to a Robot Chicken sketch I once watched, making fun of the Pledge of Allegiance will make terrorists suddenly pop up and shoot at everything.



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19 May 2022, 6:10 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
I live in Canada so we never did this kind of thing. But I went to a religious school so we had to say The Lord's Prayer before class each morning. Funny how adults make kids say this stuff while they're really too young to understand any of it. Like brainwashing...

According to a Robot Chicken sketch I once watched, making fun of the Pledge of Allegiance will make terrorists suddenly pop up and shoot at everything.


It does feel like brainwashing. I think they are trying to make people so patriotic that they’ll think the US is always right no matter what and that it’s the best country in the world. Other countries want the same thing, of course, but this seems particularly blatant.

I talked to my kid about it and told him that he didn’t have to salute the flag if he didn’t want to. He thinks it’s cringey but does it to avoid being weird, which I think is smart.



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19 May 2022, 8:16 am

The Pledge was just part of the standard morning ritual as I went through school.  It is fair to point out that while pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth make no sense to some, it makes even less sense to pledge allegiance to a raving narcissistic despot with delusions of grandeur and distinctly paranoiac tendencies.



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19 May 2022, 8:20 am

Interestingly, the phrase "under God" wasn't part of the Pledge of Allegiance until about 1956.

About the same time, "In God We Trust" was put into US currency.

I used to have to say the Pledge in school. I didn't mind it too much. We also have to sing the National Anthem in sporting events. It's a pain in the butt----but, otherwise, I don't mind too much.

I just wish we would leave religion out of it. Separation of Church and State is something Americans fought hard for during the Revolution and before.

A belief in God does not confer moral authority on anybody. Most kings in medieval times who drew and quartered people (a barbaric method of capital punishment) believed in God.



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19 May 2022, 9:41 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Interestingly, the phrase "under God" wasn't part of the Pledge of Allegiance until about 1956.

About the same time, "In God We Trust" was put into US currency.

I used to have to say the Pledge in school. I didn't mind it too much. We also have to sing the National Anthem in sporting events. It's a pain in the butt----but, otherwise, I don't mind too much.

I just wish we would leave religion out of it. Separation of Church and State is something Americans fought hard for during the Revolution and before.

A belief in God does not confer moral authority on anybody. Most kings in medieval times who drew and quartered people (a barbaric method of capital punishment) believed in God.


I never recited the culty chant because it went against my particular cult’s theology. Now I don’t like it for different reasons, but I say it sometimes because I’m a teacher, and I don’t want there to be repercussions in my nauseatingly conservative community.

I find the religious contributions towards patriotism especially problematic, but I still wouldn’t like the flag salute if God was totally absent.

It’s icky. Sometimes I’ll recite alternative lyrics in in my head which are much more interesting. I strive to meet my daily blasphemy goal.



Twilightprincess
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19 May 2022, 9:45 am

Fnord wrote:
It is fair to point out that while pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth make no sense to some, it makes even less sense to pledge allegiance to a raving narcissistic despot with delusions of grandeur and distinctly paranoiac tendencies.


I would agree on principle, but some of the biggest narcissistic despots in history have garnered the most allegiance.



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19 May 2022, 9:50 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
It is fair to point out that while pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth make no sense to some, it makes even less sense to pledge allegiance to a raving narcissistic despot with delusions of grandeur and distinctly paranoiac tendencies.
I would agree on principle, but some of the biggest narcissistic despots in history have garnered the most allegiance.
Who might you be referring to?



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19 May 2022, 9:54 am

A more important oath to me is the Military Servicemember's Oath.

"I, <yourname>, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  So help me God."

Please note that the UCMJ recognizes the servicemembers' obligation to refuse unlawful orders, too.



Last edited by Fnord on 19 May 2022, 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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19 May 2022, 9:54 am

I sense she’s talking more about people like Hitler and Stalin.

Trump is certainly up there—but he’s just not as smart as the other two.



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19 May 2022, 9:55 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I sense she’s talking more about people like Hitler and Stalin.  Trump is certainly up there -- but he’s just not as smart as the other two.
Oh, they were all "smart" in their own way, but real Americans are much smarter.



Twilightprincess
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19 May 2022, 10:01 am

Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I sense she’s talking more about people like Hitler and Stalin.  Trump is certainly up there -- but he’s just not as smart as the other two.
Oh, they were all "smart" in their own way, but real Americans are much smarter.


I was referring to a wide spectrum of narcissistic despots.

What makes one a real American? I wouldn’t classify Americans as being smarter than other groups. I think people are similarly intelligent (or similarly stupid) everywhere.



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19 May 2022, 10:18 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I sense she’s talking more about people like Hitler and Stalin.  Trump is certainly up there -- but he’s just not as smart as the other two.
Oh, they were all "smart" in their own way, but real Americans are much smarter.
I was referring to a wide spectrum of narcissistic despots.  What makes one a real American? I wouldn’t classify Americans as being smarter than other groups. I think people are similarly intelligent (or similarly stupid) everywhere.
Sorry for the off-topic derail.  I am still burned up over our "Orange Man" and his attempted coup.

Back to the original subject . . .