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goldfish21
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05 Aug 2022, 4:46 pm

Obama’s AG Holder figures trump’s getting charged:

https://www.salon.com/2022/08/05/former ... ge-donald/

Makes sense. Nice to see the comment from someone who would know, though.


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05 Aug 2022, 4:51 pm

I have seen similar news pieces.  It is the use of words like 'probably' that frustrate me.  I keep hoping to see words like 'certain', 'warrant', 'arrested', 'arraigned', 'charged', 'tried', 'convicted', 'sentenced', and 'incarcerated' when referring to DeSantis, Jones, Lindell, and most of all, Trump.



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05 Aug 2022, 5:41 pm

I'm very torn, as I do strongly believe that no one is above the law, presidents included, but I also see the absolutely massive optics problem in a president prosecuting his once and future rival (even if that person is guilty), especially in the case of such a grievance focused politician as Trump. Even beyond the near future issue, that pursuing a case against him would likely sweep him back into power, I can see the tit for tat prosecutions escalating, as every modern president has done at least one impeachable if not criminal thing while in office, and that could quickly spiral out of control.


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goldfish21
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05 Aug 2022, 5:45 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I'm very torn, as I do strongly believe that no one is above the law, presidents included, but I also see the absolutely massive optics problem in a president prosecuting his once and future rival (even if that person is guilty), especially in the case of such a grievance focused politician as Trump. Even beyond the near future issue, that pursuing a case against him would likely sweep him back into power, I can see the tit for tat prosecutions escalating, as every modern president has done at least one impeachable if not criminal thing while in office, and that could quickly spiral out of control.

I don’t see holding ppl accountable for crimes and deterring future crimes as spiralling out of control. It’s simply what should be done to serious criminals like this.


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Dox47
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05 Aug 2022, 6:01 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
I don’t see holding ppl accountable for crimes and deterring future crimes as spiralling out of control. It’s simply what should be done to serious criminals like this.


So we should put Hilary in jail for breaking national security law? Obama for targeted killings of US citizens? W or Bill Clinton for pick a reason? How about actually taking a look into the Biden family and how far Hunter's corruption actually goes? Don't pretend it isn't Pandora's Box.


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goldfish21
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05 Aug 2022, 7:17 pm

Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I don’t see holding ppl accountable for crimes and deterring future crimes as spiralling out of control. It’s simply what should be done to serious criminals like this.


So we should put Hilary in jail for breaking national security law? Obama for targeted killings of US citizens? W or Bill Clinton for pick a reason? How about actually taking a look into the Biden family and how far Hunter's corruption actually goes? Don't pretend it isn't Pandora's Box.

Do it. Maybe then there’d be a lot less criming going on in politics.

FWIW, many Canadian politicians from the very top on down belong in jail for their criming, too. And I’m sure the same holds true in many countries.

Would be nice if public servants started serving the public again instead of themselves at the trough. Piggies.


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goldfish21
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07 Aug 2022, 2:23 pm

Former guy's former guy gets grand jury subpoena:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pat-cipo ... 5016152077

There's so much investigation news coming out every day it's impossible to keep on top of.

Anyone here still think these investigations aren't going to the orange blobby one at the tippy top? :?

I can't imagine a scenario where the DOJ and other investigative bodies are going to interview ALL the other people in the room who had personal conversations with the former guy and then not end up charging him for some of his crimes. It's inevitably going to happen, IMO. Might not be this month or next, but the wheels are in motion.


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07 Aug 2022, 9:40 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Former guy's former guy gets grand jury subpoena:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pat-cipo ... 5016152077

There's so much investigation news coming out every day it's impossible to keep on top of.

Anyone here still think these investigations aren't going to the orange blobby one at the tippy top? :?

I can't imagine a scenario where the DOJ and other investigative bodies are going to interview ALL the other people in the room who had personal conversations with the former guy and then not end up charging him for some of his crimes. It's inevitably going to happen, IMO. Might not be this month or next, but the wheels are in motion.

Then they got to convict him. And if they do if the President is a Republican, especially if that President is installed via coup, Trump will be pardoned.

I am not saying it can not happen. But sure thing, after sure thing, after sure thing, after sure thing, after dead end, after dead end, after dead end, after, after this time is really it, after this time really it this time is really it, how can you or anybody for that matter be so utterly sure is baffling and for some reason scary to me. I don't think I have ever been that sure of anything since I was a child.


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08 Aug 2022, 12:14 am

I just don’t see a scenario where the USA is going to allow the former guy to destroy its democracy, system of government, and judicial system of law and order.

I think trump knows his goose is cooked, too, that he finally messed up so hardcore that plenty more powerful people than him are going to see to it that America continues as a country w/o him being anywhere near in charge ever again.


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08 Aug 2022, 12:38 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I am not saying it can not happen. But sure thing, after sure thing, after sure thing, after sure thing, after dead end, after dead end, after dead end, after, after this time is really it, after this time really it this time is really it, how can you or anybody for that matter be so utterly sure is baffling and for some reason scary to me. I don't think I have ever been that sure of anything since I was a child.


See my signature. Also, there really is a certain Lucy holding the football aspect to all of this, isn't there?


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Dox47
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08 Aug 2022, 12:41 am

goldfish21 wrote:
Would be nice if public servants started serving the public again instead of themselves at the trough. Piggies.


I don't disagree, but I'm a realist, what would happen is that the winners would put the losers in jail while sweeping their own crimes under the rug, sad but true.


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08 Aug 2022, 12:44 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I just don’t see a scenario where the USA is going to allow the former guy to destroy its democracy, system of government, and judicial system of law and order.

I think trump knows his goose is cooked, too, that he finally messed up so hardcore that plenty more powerful people than him are going to see to it that America continues as a country w/o him being anywhere near in charge ever again.


I don't think you really understand how our system works, it's all about power and staying if office, none of these people would hesitate to reduce the country to a banana republic if they got to rule over it. Trump was unusually gauche, but he's not that different from the rest of them when you get right down to it.


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08 Aug 2022, 1:52 am

goldfish21 wrote:
I just don’t see a scenario where the USA is going to allow the former guy to destroy its democracy, system of government, and judicial system of law and order.

I think trump knows his goose is cooked, too, that he finally messed up so hardcore that plenty more powerful people than him are going to see to it that America continues as a country w/o him being anywhere near in charge ever again.

If anything the last few years should have proved that we are not so special. Other countries have pissed away democracies, why not us? In the last few years I have heard a version of this, we overcame worse, the Civil War, The Great Depression, WWII we WILL overcome this. A dangerous assumption.

Even if Trump himself falls, it does not mean we are in the clear from Trumpism.

While I have gotten some heat for this I see plenty of danger from the illiberal overcorrection from the left.


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08 Aug 2022, 3:34 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
While I have gotten some heat for this I see plenty of danger from the illiberal overcorrection from the left.


It's not a correction or a reaction, the illiberal streak on the left long predates Trump, I first encountered it in the late 90s/early 2000s, and it's only gotten stronger and more mainstream since.


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09 Aug 2022, 2:42 am

Dox47 wrote:
Trump was unusually gauche, but he's not that different from the rest of them when you get right down to it.


I think he was more than gauche, he was unrestrained by the constitution and the rules of governance. We're not talking about pushing the envelope; we're talking about trying to get rid of the envelope.

That said, I tend to be with your reluctance stated in your earlier post. I honestly don't know what the best answer is, but a political history professor I listen to regularly (Heather Cox Richardson) has noted that historically when governments reconcile rather than prosecute, it creates more lingering problems than if they prosecute. Today obviously isn't yesterday, but the historical pattern is worth thinking about.


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18 Aug 2022, 6:13 pm

:lol:

https://fb.watch/e_wdG-vgKA/?fs=e&s=cl


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