I just watched “gone with the wind”

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QFT
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05 Jul 2022, 2:37 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I think most people would think that showing the dead soldiers here is an effective way of depicting defeat/the futileness of war.


That’s where I disagree since Soviet Union is an example of the opposite.

Twilightprincess wrote:
When it comes to books and movies, it’s usually a good idea to show but not tell.


Well, in that particular movie, they do show some things in writing, that’s why I suggested one more such thing.

But if they do want to show and not tell, here is a better idea. They could have shown confederate flag taken out and Union flag being put on its place.



IsabellaLinton
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05 Jul 2022, 2:43 pm

Maybe you should brush up on The Battle of Atlanta. ^

Moving a flag wouldn't have stirred Scarlett's development as a strong fighter.
The concept of war needed to be personified through the faces of men she had known.
It's a turning point in her awareness of self.

The book isn't about Russia.
It's about a fictitious symbol of the south (Scarlett) learning what was important.



shlaifu
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05 Jul 2022, 3:12 pm

QFT wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
The reason why you would show defeat by showing dead soldiers is that, for the defeated, that's all that's left. All the sacrifice was in vain.


Simply showing a sacrifice doesn’t imply that it’s in vain. Soviets showing their dead soldiers after World War Two are making the opposite point: that their sacrifice was for a great cause.


Context matters.
The Soviet Union won the war, their sacrifice was not in vain.
The South lost, their soldiers died for nothing.

If you show dead Soviet soldiers to show how the battle was list, and the world Scarlett O'Hara grew up in is no more, it would be very confusing.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jul 2022, 3:35 pm

The page of 270 items of film trivia at IMDb is quite interesting, at least to me,
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0031381/triv ... =tt_ql_trv

Among the notes:

"
For the scene in which Scarlett escapes the burning of the Atlanta Depot, a horse was needed to play Woebegone, an old nag on the verge of collapse. A suitable candidate was finally found but weeks later, when the horse was brought to the set, it had gained weight and its ribs were no longer visible. There was no time to find a replacement, so the makeup department painted dark shadows on its ribs to give the appearance of malnourishment.
"

"
When Scarlett searches for Dr. Meade, making her way among 1,600 suffering and dying Confederate soldiers, to cut costs and still comply with a union rule that dictated the use of a certain percentage of extras in the cast, 800 dummies were scattered among 800 extras. According to the documentary The Making of a Legend: Gone with the Wind (1988) in addition to saving money the use of dummies was partially because there were not enough extras available due to the fact that four other films requiring a lot of extras were filming that same day.
"

"
For the premiere in Atlanta in December 15, 1939, the governor declared a state holiday. Ticket prices for the premiere were 40 times the usual going rate.
"

"
Very few of the principal cast members liked the characters they were portraying. Clark Gable was induced into accepting his role through arrangements to divorce his current wife and marry Carole Lombard. Rand Brooks, who played Scarlett's first husband Charles Hamilton, was actually a rough outdoorsman who objected to playing a wimpy character. Butterfly McQueen disliked the negative stereotype of her character. Leslie Howard felt he was too old for the role of Ashley Wilkes and complained that his costumes made him look like "a fairy doorman" at a hotel.
"

"
The first scene to be shot was the burning of the Atlanta Depot, filmed on 10 December 1938. If there was a major mistake during the filming, the entire film might have been scrapped. They actually burned many old sets that needed to be cleared from the studio back lot, including ones from The Garden of Allah (1936) and the "Great Wall" set from King Kong (1933). The fire cost over $25,000 and yielded 113 minutes of footage. It was so intense that Culver City residents jammed the telephones lines, thinking MGM was burning down. Scarlett was stunt-doubled by Aline Goodwin and Lila Finn, while Rhett was doubled by veteran stuntmen Yakima Canutt and Jay Wilsey.
"


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funeralxempire
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05 Jul 2022, 3:43 pm

As others have said, outcomes matter when judging the value of a sacrifice.

Big sacrifice to avoid existential doom = worth it.
Big sacrifice but existential doom still occurs = futile the whole damn time.

Further, in the USSR the story was retold by the USSR. In the US, the story is normally told by the Union and sources that sympathize with the traitors generally try to portray them as romantic and doomed to avoid having to examine it in a less romantic way. They can't rewrite history to make them winners, but they can rewrite history to make them 'the better men' if their cause is mostly ignored.

I'm sure if the Soviet Union collapsed as a result of WWII and another Russian state was telling the history of the Soviet resistance to the Nazis they'd retell it in a similar manner where whatever led to the new Russian state is a positive, but those guys (our countrymen on the side that we now consider wrong) were still brave in a romantic sense and show how tough our people are.


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Last edited by funeralxempire on 05 Jul 2022, 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twilightprincess
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05 Jul 2022, 3:43 pm

QFT wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
When it comes to books and movies, it’s usually a good idea to show but not tell.


Well, in that particular movie, they do show some things in writing, that’s why I suggested one more such thing.

But if they do want to show and not tell, here is a better idea. They could have shown confederate flag taken out and Union flag being put on its place.


What they did seems to have worked for them since it’s one of the most critically acclaimed movies of all time.


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kitesandtrainsandcats
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05 Jul 2022, 3:43 pm

Another interesting bit of film trivia found,
"
18. Advanced mathematics account for one of the most beautiful shots in the film.

Early in the movie, there is a glorious shot of Scarlett and her father standing before a fading sun, surveying the beauty of Tara. Nobody could figure out how to make it work. Technology of the day didn’t allow for the synching of the film of the actors, the sunset effect and two different matte paintings. So the crew consulted the Math Department at UCLA, who came up with a way to fit everything together using advanced calculus.
"

From:
https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/560 ... -gone-wind


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05 Jul 2022, 4:11 pm

QFT wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Actually the USSR lost 7.5 soldiers.


You mean 7.5 million?

naturalplastic wrote:
But like the Soviet "Great Patriotic War" in our civil war the victors lost more men than did the vanquished. The north lost half again as many men as did the south. Though the south lost far more relative to its smaller population size than did the north.


If the north lost only half as many as south did, how are you saying victors lost more? Or was it a typo?


"Half again". That means "one point five times". Also known as "three for every two". Got it?

Yes. Seven and half million.



naturalplastic
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05 Jul 2022, 4:19 pm

What Funeral is saying.

The main aim of the novel and movie "Gone With The Wind" were to romanticize a doomed cause.