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cyberdad
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19 Jul 2022, 2:44 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I frankly think that if they chose a statute of a random guy named Bubba (with dirty overalls and work boots) whose primary interest was shooting squirrels from his back porch it would be a better choice.


You would need to equip Bubba's statue with a red MAGA cap, pick up truck and an AR-15

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Any gun would work, because this fits the profile of most pro-2nd amendment people.


I don’t want to stereotype people, but they make it so, so difficult not to.


I saw a Bubba carrying an anti-Obamacare placard with no teeth. Seemed like the dude could have used Obamacare for some dental work



naturalplastic
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21 Jul 2022, 11:35 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
I frankly think that if they chose a statute of a random guy named Bubba (with dirty overalls and work boots) whose primary interest was shooting squirrels from his back porch it would be a better choice.


You would need to equip Bubba's statue with a red MAGA cap, pick up truck and an AR-15

Image


Any gun would work, because this fits the profile of most pro-2nd amendment people.


I don’t want to stereotype people, but they make it so, so difficult not to.

Thats the very thing I am objecting to. Reacting to bigotry WITH bigotry- against Southern Whites or whatever group.

Billy Graham was contemporary with my lifetime. But since Im so old - he is now a part of the past as well. So it hard to judge him by...'today's standards'. Further- precisely because I was never a fan of him - thats why I guard against being prejudiced against him. He meant alot to many sub cultures of the country (redneck white whites AND Blacks revere him). So why not have a statue in the Capitol Rotunda of him?

He did demand desegregating his southern audiences for his big sermons in the Sixties. So he was on the right side of the Black civil rights movement. Though not an activist for that particular cause.

And Billy Graham DID evolve over time. He was judemental against helping the poor (because of his own dirt poor background), but mellowed and became more liberal about that as he matured.

So I give him credit for that.

But that sermon you mention - in the Nineties- in which he waffles, but basically says AIDs is god's punishment for homosexuals. Maybe that was going too far- even by 1990s standards. I dont ask a southern preacher to endorse the gay lifestyle. But as Richard Pryor once said when asked if God punishes people with diseases:"God doesnt operate that way".

Every person is complex. When we honor anyone with a statue its our mythic image of the person, and not really the real person. It can be complex to assess.



auntblabby
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21 Jul 2022, 11:47 pm

at least it is not a statue of billy graham's obnoxious son.



Twilightprincess
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22 Jul 2022, 12:29 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Every person is complex. When we honor anyone with a statue its our mythic image of the person, and not really the real person. It can be complex to assess.


I get what you’re saying but I still don’t think that the Capitol Building is the right place for a statue of a purely religious figure for reasons I’ve already stated. He could be elsewhere.

The Rocky statue at the Philadelphia Museum of Art irritates me every time I see it.

I grew up in this subculture and was friends with many Bubbas, so I’m comfortable satirizing it. i was primarily thinking of specific extreme examples, though, and not a demographic as a whole. I knew a couple of people who shot squirrels from their back porch.


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cyberdad
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22 Jul 2022, 3:29 am

naturalplastic wrote:
But that sermon you mention - in the Nineties- in which he waffles, but basically says AIDs is god's punishment for homosexuals. Maybe that was going too far- even by 1990s standards. I dont ask a southern preacher to endorse the gay lifestyle. But as Richard Pryor once said when asked if God punishes people with diseases:"God doesnt operate that way". s.


he was a man of his times. A lot of prejudice against gay people during the AIDS crisis. I saw openly homophobic discrimination against a friend of mine in university who is gay.



kraftiekortie
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22 Jul 2022, 8:23 am

What did Billy Graham actually do for the state of North Carolina?

Like I said....if he found a way to fix up many of the shacks in the Appalachians, then I might advocate a statue for him.

But he was a preacher and a guy who made millions off his preaching. Did his preaching have a demonstrable impact upon the lifestyle of the average poor person in North Carolina?



Twilightprincess
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22 Jul 2022, 8:35 am

Not everyone in North Carolina is happy about it. I can SO relate to this guy.

Quote:
For me, the separation of church and state and America’s promise that all religions are treated equally is not academic. It’s what makes me, as a Jew, just as much an American and a North Carolinian as anyone else.

So it hit me like a slap when I read that the N.C. legislature approved a statue of the Rev. Billy Graham holding a Bible to represent our state in the halls of Congress.

In July, a congressional committee approved a preliminary model of the Graham statue. The model has Graham holding a Bible and standing atop a pedestal inscribed with two Bible quotations. John 3:16 reads “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life,” and John 14:6 reads “Jesus answered, ‘I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’”

It’s one thing for a private religious organization to proselytize that I, as a Jew, am eternally damned. For our state government to send a proxy for this message to the U.S. Capitol frightens me. It hits me as an act of deep disrespect and a potential threat.


https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/opini ... 36882.html


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Twilightprincess
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22 Jul 2022, 8:57 am

Quote:
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, in partnership with the state, is raising money for the statue and its installation—which is estimated to cost $650,000. No state funds will be used.


https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/ ... ycock.html

Franklin Graham is playing a role in this. He runs the BGEA.


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Twilightprincess
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22 Jul 2022, 10:29 am

Here’s a quote from the BGEA website:

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“It’s the most magnificent representation of Mr. Graham,” said Dr. David Bruce, one of the seven North Carolina Statuary Hall Committee members who got to see the two-foot-tall clay model up close. “He’s leaning forward, almost standing on his toes but not quite, leading with his left foot, and he’s in a preaching mode but it’s an inviting mode. He is compelling people to the truth.”

What would Billy Graham think about all of this?

“He would not understand it fully, just because of his humble nature,” Dr. Bruce said. “But I think he would understand the way this has been captured, that it is an invitation to Christ. The compelling part of this is the invitation, as though he’s saying, ‘Come and see.'”


https://billygraham.org/story/nc-commit ... am-statue/

It’s concerning in my opinion. The statue is meant to have a proselytizing effect on people, and it’s in the Capitol Building, not some religious locale.


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23 Jul 2022, 2:05 am

A lot of the statues in government buildings were placed there on the whims of some local powerbroker who wanted to honour them. This is no different to the UK or Australian government buildings.

Therefore there's no precedence for having public opinion choose a candidate. Perhaps an example should be made and people need to stop giving executive powers to self-interested power brokers.