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cyberdad
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20 Jul 2022, 4:58 am

KitLily wrote:
If a vote or referendum decides on something, the worst decision is made e.g. Brexit.


You are right, the election of Trump demonstrate the US population can't be relied on making rationale decisions on their own welfare.



SpiralingCrow
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20 Jul 2022, 6:21 am

The conservatives don't want referendums. They know they would not have the majority on all of these issues if brought to a referendum.

The democrats made one colossal error before Obama left office and that was not fighting for his Supreme Court pick, Merrick Garland. We are now seeing the effects of that.



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20 Jul 2022, 7:25 am

cyberdad wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
Roe, Obergefell, Lawrence, et al, need to be either their own amendments, or part of a second Bill of Rights.

If any of their codifications fail by legislation, they need to be decided by national referendum.


It's strange that overturning Roe Vs Wade wasn't put to a ballot?


I am going by the 2018 referendum in Ireland that legalized abortion. If a country that is over 80% Catholic can pull it off, I don't see why a country that is only 70% Christian can't.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44256152



KitLily
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20 Jul 2022, 8:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
Basically enforcing minority rights through things like quotas. For example having a minimum number of women or PoC in management. The "anti-woke" crowd call these people "diversity hire" insinuating they were only picked because they were black or because they were female (not because they had skills).


ohhhh riiiiight! I get it now.

Thanks for answering clearly. Too many people (cough cough NTs) say 'why do you want to know?' 'do you still not understand?' etc. as if I'm playing some game when I'm just asking for clear information.


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KitLily
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20 Jul 2022, 8:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
KitLily wrote:
If a vote or referendum decides on something, the worst decision is made e.g. Brexit.


You are right, the election of Trump demonstrate the US population can't be relied on making rationale decisions on their own welfare.


Same with the Brits e.g. Brexit. Or anything else really :lol: :roll:


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KitLily
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20 Jul 2022, 8:46 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
The conservatives don't want referendums. They know they would not have the majority on all of these issues if brought to a referendum.


Yes in Britain, there is only a small minority of people even voting in elections i.e. about 38% of adults. The rest can't be bothered, saying 'nothing changes whatever I do.' That is exactly what the Conservative government wants: an apathetic population who doesn't bother to fight it, so they can keep governing by the back door (i.e. replacing the prime minister endlessly - voted for by about 0.07% of the population, the Conservative party members - without a general election)

Apathy will kill the human race.


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SpiralingCrow
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20 Jul 2022, 9:00 am

KitLily wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The conservatives don't want referendums. They know they would not have the majority on all of these issues if brought to a referendum.


Yes in Britain, there is only a small minority of people even voting in elections i.e. about 38% of adults. The rest can't be bothered, saying 'nothing changes whatever I do.' That is exactly what the Conservative government wants: an apathetic population who doesn't bother to fight it, so they can keep governing by the back door (i.e. replacing the prime minister endlessly - voted for by about 0.07% of the population, the Conservative party members - without a general election)

Apathy will kill the human race.



Very true in US too. But on these particular issues, the conservatives don't have the popular support. The majority of population is in support of abortion rights, gay marriage etc. If it came to referendum, conservatives lose.



KitLily
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20 Jul 2022, 9:05 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Yes in Britain, there is only a small minority of people even voting in elections i.e. about 38% of adults. The rest can't be bothered, saying 'nothing changes whatever I do.' That is exactly what the Conservative government wants: an apathetic population who doesn't bother to fight it, so they can keep governing by the back door (i.e. replacing the prime minister endlessly - voted for by about 0.07% of the population, the Conservative party members - without a general election)

Apathy will kill the human race.



Very true in US too. But on these particular issues, the conservatives don't have the popular support. The majority of population is in support of abortion rights, gay marriage etc. If it came to referendum, conservatives lose.


I hope you are right. I hope it's just trolls and bots online making it sound like most people are against all this 'woke' stuff like women's rights, gay rights etc. The 'anti woke' brigade are making a lot of noise in Britain :x


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20 Jul 2022, 10:29 am

I think it's a very vocal minority that are screaming against these issues. I don't think most average americans are necessarily against them, they just aren't compelled to rant and rave about the issues.



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20 Jul 2022, 10:53 am

SpiralingCrow wrote:
I think it's a very vocal minority that are screaming against these issues. I don't think most average americans are necessarily against them, they just aren't compelled to rant and rave about the issues.


Yes. And the ones who shout the loudest get most attention these days don't they, thanks to the internet.


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20 Jul 2022, 4:21 pm

{quotes of removed content redacted}

The major parties in the English speaking world tend to follow the Westminster system but it varies

For example in Australia our conservatives are called "Liberals" whereas in America Democrats are called liberals. In Australia liberal connotes 'neo-liberals" who are free market capitalists.

For Australians both the democrats and Republicans are conservative but the republicans are very similar to our far right parties like the One Nation Party. Funny enough the leader of the ONP Pauline Hanson is a great admirer of Trump.



Last edited by Cornflake on 21 Jul 2022, 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.: Redacted some quotes

cyberdad
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20 Jul 2022, 4:22 pm

SpiralingCrow wrote:
The democrats made one colossal error before Obama left office and that was not fighting for his Supreme Court pick, Merrick Garland. We are now seeing the effects of that.


Yes, didn't Biden block the appointment for some reason?



cyberdad
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20 Jul 2022, 4:29 pm

KitLily wrote:
That is exactly what the Conservative government wants: an apathetic population who doesn't bother to fight it, so they can keep governing by the back door (i.e. replacing the prime minister endlessly - voted for by about 0.07% of the population, the Conservative party members - without a general election)

Apathy will kill the human race.


At the end of the day, reversing minority rights doesn't impact the majority of the population, Even abortion rights impacts only one in four women in the United States (23.7%) will have an abortion by the age 45

Only 7% of people in the US identify as LGBTQI so likewise conservatives don't care about their vote



SpiralingCrow
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20 Jul 2022, 4:50 pm

cyberdad wrote:
SpiralingCrow wrote:
The democrats made one colossal error before Obama left office and that was not fighting for his Supreme Court pick, Merrick Garland. We are now seeing the effects of that.


Yes, didn't Biden block the appointment for some reason?


Not exactly.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/18/politics ... index.html

This explains it.



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20 Jul 2022, 8:46 pm

And I think it's important for people to realise someone who votes Conservative isn't a monster. ^
Nor is it a complete package deal pertaining to values.

You believe in trans rights and gay rights and disability rights, but you are also pro-life.
You're a free thinker.

It's so annoying when people generalise or stereotype people based on how they vote.



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20 Jul 2022, 11:45 pm

Conservatives and republicans are against gay marriages and transgender people rights. Anyone who votes for the party is a accomplice for these rights being taken away when it happens.


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