Survey Looks at Acceptance of Political Violence in U.S.

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ironpony
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07 Sep 2022, 11:27 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Those are fair points. But even if Trump extremists are dumb, I don't know if I believe they can all be done, and what if there are some smart ones who can formulate an effective plan?

But as far as being scared of prosecution, they made selfie videos of themselves in the capital building, so I guess it will take a lot for a lot of them to be afraid therefore?

Then there might be one or two or a handful that rise to the level of mass murderer in terms of plotting or executing a domestic terror plot. Only time will tell if there are any of the radicalized that have that level of sophistication that can managed to go through the entire process without being caught somehow.

The USA has had many mass shooters that have successfully murdered a lot of people w/o having their plans discovered in advance, so, it's entirely possible that one/some crazies do get their hands on some big guns and a lot of ammo and go on a killing spree. Wouldn't be the first time it happened in the USA and won't be the last.

Only time will tell what level of violence what number of people are incited to, really. If I were a betting man I'd place a dollar on "more than zero people committing more than no violence in trump's name," but until these people lose their minds and start shooting or whatever they're going to do, we won't really know what's going to happen, really. It's kind of like kids going back to school.. just gotta take your chances that there may or may not be a shooter sometime, and that trump's mood on social media and at his rallies could trigger something to go off. That's what happens when people are enchanted by a cult leader and will commit acts of violence in their name.


That makes sense. I didn't think of Trump as a cult leader, I just thought that the cultists formed a cult outside if hom having any actual co-conspiring with the cult. But I'm not American and haven't followed everything about him so I am not sure.

..psychiatrists/psychologists have chimed in to say that trump's followers' behaviour are that of a cult blindly following their dear leader.

There's at least one book written on the topic.

There are also many t-shirt & sticker designs bluntly stating it + I'm sure many memes.

Here's one of the books:

https://www.amazon.ca/Cult-Trump-Leadin ... 1982127333

"The Cult of Trump: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind Control Hardcover – Illustrated, Oct. 15 2019"

Image

Here's one of the common t-shirt/sticker designs:

Image


The cult mentality of his followers Does explain a lot as to why they would blindly believe all of his lies and praise him at rallies and even commit acts of violence in his name, on his behalf, or at his direction.


But aren't both sides blindly following leaders since the other side is blindly following Biden as well? I thought both sides were guilty of being cults per se.



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07 Sep 2022, 11:30 pm

ironpony wrote:
But aren't both sides blindly following leaders since the other side is blindly following Biden as well? I thought both sides were guilty of being cults per se.


Sure, Biden has some fans.. but do you see anyone being fanatical about him? Do you see them under some sort of Biden spell committing acts of violence on his say so or behalf ? I don’t think I’ve seen any examples of irrational cult like behaviour from Biden followers. If you have any examples feel free to share them.


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07 Sep 2022, 11:36 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But aren't both sides blindly following leaders since the other side is blindly following Biden as well? I thought both sides were guilty of being cults per se.


Sure, Biden has some fans.. but do you see anyone being fanatical about him? Do you see them under some sort of Biden spell committing acts of violence on his say so or behalf ? I don’t think I’ve seen any examples of irrational cult like behaviour from Biden followers. If you have any examples feel free to share them.


It's hard to say because since Biden is in office, no one feels the need to be fanatical about him. I thought Trump fanatics got fanatical because he wasn't elected back into office. If Biden lost the next election then we will have to see how fanatical his fans get over that in comparison?



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07 Sep 2022, 11:52 pm

ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But aren't both sides blindly following leaders since the other side is blindly following Biden as well? I thought both sides were guilty of being cults per se.


Sure, Biden has some fans.. but do you see anyone being fanatical about him? Do you see them under some sort of Biden spell committing acts of violence on his say so or behalf ? I don’t think I’ve seen any examples of irrational cult like behaviour from Biden followers. If you have any examples feel free to share them.


It's hard to say because since Biden is in office, no one feels the need to be fanatical about him. I thought Trump fanatics got fanatical because he wasn't elected back into office. If Biden lost the next election then we will have to see how fanatical his fans get over that in comparison?


Umm, by that logic, where were the Obama cult members after he left office ?

Just by virtue of being a former president doesn't mean they have a cult. And trump has had a cult building since his campaign days before he was elected, and then he had a bunch of cult followers attending his rallies while he was president.. it wasn't just the day that he lost that a bunch of people decided to start behaving like cult followers. It was a phenomenon that built up over a handful of years.. people who believe all of the crazy lies he spits because they're delusional and think he's the greatest leader of all time. It's as if they're under some sort of spell or something - hence that author writing a book saying trump uses mind control techniques on them with his repetitive speech patterns.


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08 Sep 2022, 12:01 am

Oh I see. But aren't the liberal extremists, just as extreme, for example, when Black Lives Matter took off, their were a lot of riots going on in the US, and it seems just as extreme as the conversative extremist rioting, doesn't it?



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08 Sep 2022, 12:03 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. But aren't the liberal extremists, just as extreme, for example, when Black Lives Matter took off, their were a lot of riots going on in the US, and it seems just as extreme as the conversative extremist rioting, doesn't it?


Shh, you'll confuse him.


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08 Sep 2022, 12:06 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. But aren't the liberal extremists, just as extreme, for example, when Black Lives Matter took off, their were a lot of riots going on in the US, and it seems just as extreme as the conversative extremist rioting, doesn't it?

Those weren't people committing acts of violence for a political ideology. They were rioting for racial justice.. demanding that police officers in the USA stop murdering black people for being black. They were righting for basic human rights - and it's actually super impressive that they managed to refrain from doing so for ~50 years.


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08 Sep 2022, 12:09 am

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. But aren't the liberal extremists, just as extreme, for example, when Black Lives Matter took off, their were a lot of riots going on in the US, and it seems just as extreme as the conversative extremist rioting, doesn't it?

Those weren't people committing acts of violence for a political ideology. They were rioting for racial justice.. demanding that police officers in the USA stop murdering black people for being black. They were righting for basic human rights - and it's actually super impressive that they managed to refrain from doing so for ~50 years.


Oh but are you saying violence is more acceptable, if it's not political, and it's more about social justice then?



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08 Sep 2022, 12:39 am

ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh I see. But aren't the liberal extremists, just as extreme, for example, when Black Lives Matter took off, their were a lot of riots going on in the US, and it seems just as extreme as the conversative extremist rioting, doesn't it?

Those weren't people committing acts of violence for a political ideology. They were rioting for racial justice.. demanding that police officers in the USA stop murdering black people for being black. They were righting for basic human rights - and it's actually super impressive that they managed to refrain from doing so for ~50 years.


Oh but are you saying violence is more acceptable, if it's not political, and it's more about social justice then?

I’m saying it’s different.

I Personally think it’s more acceptable to riot for human rights than it is to riot for trump or to try to overthrow the us govt because trump lost an election.

But in general they’re quite different reasons for violence.


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08 Sep 2022, 1:07 am

That's a fair point there being different reasons. I just thought the violence of black lives matter was still political in a sense that is was a political group (the American democrates), who were doing it so I thought it was political if it was political group doing it, unless I am wrong?



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08 Sep 2022, 1:59 am

ironpony wrote:
That's a fair point there being different reasons. I just thought the violence of black lives matter was still political in a sense that is was a political group (the American democrates), who were doing it so I thought it was political if it was political group doing it, unless I am wrong?

Was it ?

It was led by a human rights protest group, Black Lives Matter. It wasn't a democrat political party organized set of protests.

There was some overlap between BLM and the political left/liberals, because the political left tends to be racially diverse and inclusive whereas the political right tends to have a lot more Charlottesville "unite the right," white supremacist rally attendees. So I can see how you might confuse a series of protests for human rights for non-white Americans as having a political affiliation, but it wasn't something organized by the democrat political party - it's just that racial equality IS supported more so by the democrats than republicans.


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09 Sep 2022, 1:19 am

That makes sense. Good points.



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09 Sep 2022, 3:06 am

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
That's a fair point there being different reasons. I just thought the violence of black lives matter was still political in a sense that is was a political group (the American democrates), who were doing it so I thought it was political if it was political group doing it, unless I am wrong?

Was it ?

It was led by a human rights protest group, Black Lives Matter. It wasn't a democrat political party organized set of protests.

There was some overlap between BLM and the political left/liberals, because the political left tends to be racially diverse and inclusive whereas the political right tends to have a lot more Charlottesville "unite the right," white supremacist rally attendees. So I can see how you might confuse a series of protests for human rights for non-white Americans as having a political affiliation, but it wasn't something organized by the democrat political party - it's just that racial equality IS supported more so by the democrats than republicans.

I am sure the owners and employees of the businesses who were burnt down or looted blind when they were already hurting due to the lockdowns were ok with it because it was in the name of racial justice(SMH)


As much of a problem if not a bigger problem as the people who accept the violence are the "it's wrong but" people.


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10 Sep 2022, 4:04 pm

That's why we need DeSantis. He can take everything what went wrong and put them all right again.


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10 Sep 2022, 6:41 pm

ironpony wrote:
I guess I just fear it might become more serioust than that. For example, if members of the left or right, decide to learn how to build some homemade atomic or chemical bombs, load them into their trunks and then drive to Washington DC, leave the city and then detonate them, could the government still function then.


I have to admit I'm entertained by the thought of someone who disappears into his shed in the evenings, away from the wife just brazenly building an atomic bomb between cups of tea and the odd tinker with the lawn mower.

Political violence though? I would say it's no more likely now that it was in the past. If anything it was more common in centuries past.



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10 Sep 2022, 6:45 pm

Well as for the debate if the violence on Jan 6 was worse violence than BLM. I remember when the BLM riots happened a lot of properties that were destroyed in the riots were in the black communities. So they fight for social justice for black people, but at the same time cause riots to happen which destroyed black communities.

So it was hard for me to take BLM seriously when they show the world they are self destructive like that. Where as the people who commited violence on Jan 6, even though they commited violence out of blame, at least there were directing the violence at the people they were actually blaming if that makes sense.