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ToughDiamond
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05 Aug 2022, 4:22 am

Probably more of a lone wolf, but not by free choice. I remember a school report that said I preferred to work alone. I didn't think that was accurate. What had happened was that when they told us to pair up and collaborate, everybody found partners by some mysterious process, except me. I'd then be told to join an existing pair, who weren't usually keen on the addition, I couldn't follow what they were doing and they couldn't be bothered to clearly fill me in on what was going on. I never wanted it that way.

I've always been attracted to the idea of collaborative working, and have sometimes achieved quite a lot when working in a pair, but I find it difficult to get myself included.

I worked with another musician quite well for a few years, but the arrangement broke down in the end, probably because I was a perfectionist while the other guy wasn't, so I'd get annoyed by his glib attitude to the quality of the result, and he probably interpreted my frequent requests for us to try again to get it better as meaning that I was unimpressed by his musicianship.

I do find it difficult to share the management of a project. I tend to figure out what I think is the best plan, and then it's hard for me to see the value of suggestions that would unpick and disrupt my plan - I tend to think the other people don't understand the reasons for the details of my plan, and that their changes will just mess it up. It's hard for me to put my reservations into words because when I make my plans I don't always think it all through in words.



Benjamin the Donkey
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05 Aug 2022, 5:36 am

Lone wolf. If I'm working with a team, I do better if I'm in charge, that is, the team is there to realize my vision.


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KitLily
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05 Aug 2022, 5:49 am

I'd like to be a team player but no one wants me so I've ended up as a lone wolf :shrug:


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Gaara
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05 Aug 2022, 7:14 am

Lone Wolf all the way. Can't stand being in groups and being forced into groupthink. I just get ignored any way.



shortfatbalduglyman
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05 Aug 2022, 9:02 am

Plenty of job descriptions say "team player" and "outgoing"

Few job descriptions say "work alone"

But "team player" and "outgoing" are not superior to "work alone"



KitLily
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05 Aug 2022, 9:25 am

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Plenty of job descriptions say "team player" and "outgoing"

Few job descriptions say "work alone"

But "team player" and "outgoing" are not superior to "work alone"


Yes, well noticed! It's quite odd.

When I was looking for jobs in the 1980s, all the job adverts said 'Wanted: A motivated self starter who has a bubbly personality.'

What on earth is that? :lol: :lol:

Where are all the jobs for 'Someone who follows clear instructions well who has a quiet, industrious personality.'


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shortfatbalduglyman
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05 Aug 2022, 2:26 pm

KitLily wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Plenty of job descriptions say "team player" and "outgoing"

Few job descriptions say "work alone"

But "team player" and "outgoing" are not superior to "work alone"


Yes, well noticed! It's quite odd.

When I was looking for jobs in the 1980s, all the job adverts said 'Wanted: A motivated self starter who has a bubbly personality.'

What on earth is that? :lol: :lol:

Where are all the jobs for 'Someone who follows clear instructions well who has a quiet, industrious personality.'

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In their defense, the solar system contains a lot more extrovert jobs (restaurant retail sales) than introvert jobs (STEM)



And introvert jobs tend to be academically harder than introvert jobs


However, personality tests like Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory , could not be justified. They are not "discrimination" because the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission does not specify "Myers Briggs Type" as a protected group, thus far. (Maybe ten years later)



KitLily
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05 Aug 2022, 3:16 pm

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Yes, well noticed! It's quite odd.

When I was looking for jobs in the 1980s, all the job adverts said 'Wanted: A motivated self starter who has a bubbly personality.'

What on earth is that? :lol: :lol:

Where are all the jobs for 'Someone who follows clear instructions well who has a quiet, industrious personality.'

___________________________


In their defense, the solar system contains a lot more extrovert jobs (restaurant retail sales) than introvert jobs (STEM)

And introvert jobs tend to be academically harder than introvert jobs


Why don't they say that, then? Instead of all the 'self starter with a bubbly personality' nonsense :lol:


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I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


shortfatbalduglyman
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05 Aug 2022, 4:02 pm

KitLily wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
KitLily wrote:
Yes, well noticed! It's quite odd.

When I was looking for jobs in the 1980s, all the job adverts said 'Wanted: A motivated self starter who has a bubbly personality.'

What on earth is that? :lol: :lol:

Where are all the jobs for 'Someone who follows clear instructions well who has a quiet, industrious personality.'

___________________________


In their defense, the solar system contains a lot more extrovert jobs (restaurant retail sales) than introvert jobs (STEM)

And introvert jobs tend to be academically harder than introvert jobs


Why don't they say that, then? Instead of all the 'self starter with a bubbly personality' nonsense :lol:

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Not enough information to get the reason why

However the company could hire anyone it wants. They don't have a demographic quota. (Even if they had a democratic quota, it would not mention Myers Briggs Type). They can make anyone redundant for any reason or no reason "at will" employer)


A couple of years ago someone correctly told me that "no matter how many job skills you get someone with a better personality will always get the job."


In some situations "masking" is necessary but neurotypicals can "mask" too

Masking can only go so far


Cost benefit analysis

Not worth the energy it takes

Nature versus nurture

Set point theory



Fnord
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05 Aug 2022, 4:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
Machiavelli once said, "Among wolves, be the fox; and among foxes, be the wolf" (or something like that).  I can be a "Team Player", but only if I can derive some personal benefit from doing so.
I found the original quote.
Niccolò Machiavelli wrote:
The lion cannot protect himself from traps, and the fox cannot defend himself from wolves.  One must therefore be a fox to recognize traps, and a lion to frighten wolves.
It seems I have been going about it all wrong.  In any case, it still works.


:D



KitLily
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06 Aug 2022, 5:40 am

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
A couple of years ago someone correctly told me that "no matter how many job skills you get someone with a better personality will always get the job."


What is a 'better personality' though? It could be anything.


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shortfatbalduglyman
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06 Aug 2022, 9:00 am

KitLily wrote:
shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
A couple of years ago someone correctly told me that "no matter how many job skills you get someone with a better personality will always get the job."


What is a 'better personality' though? It could be anything.

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Your statement is correct.

You can't measure the quality of a personality

It is not possible to measure quality, at all

The best personality for a psychologist is different from the best personality of a CUA interrogator

Every situation is different

However, personality disorders, by definition, are not functional

Some personalities are more functional , usually, than most



KitLily
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06 Aug 2022, 10:04 am

They just need to be more clear in their job adverts. 'Bubbly personality' and 'self starter' mean nothing.


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Twilightprincess
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06 Aug 2022, 10:07 am

I’d prefer to see “cranky, abrasive, opinionated, and generally unpleasant” in an ad for a job.


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babybird
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06 Aug 2022, 10:08 am

KitLily wrote:
They just need to be more clear in their job adverts. 'Bubbly personality' and 'self starter' mean nothing.


Maybe you should take some bubbles to the interview and start blowing them at the interver.

I'm about as far from bubbly as one can get.



KitLily
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06 Aug 2022, 10:10 am

babybird wrote:
Maybe you should take some bubbles to the interview and start blowing them at the interver.

I'm about as far from bubbly as one can get.


Oh yes! And some kind of machinery I can start myself :lol: :lol:

Yes I'm definitely not bubbly: I'm quiet, serious and precise, but with a dry sense of humour that most people don't get.


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I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
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I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


Last edited by KitLily on 06 Aug 2022, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.