Do you feel your body is a mere meat bag?

Page 4 of 5 [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Fern
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,289

19 Aug 2022, 4:09 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
That's why I consider myself non-binary.
My brain doesn't have a gender and my brain is "me".
My body is female and I'm fine with that, but it feels kind of third person.


That is really interesting! Thank you for sharing.
I am not very gender-conforming in my appearance and I feel comfortable about that. A lot of people ask me if I am non-binary because of this, but I don't think that I am. It's hard for me to explain why that is though. Maybe it is because, like you said, I've always felt so close to my physicality.

It's really interesting to hear about the thoughts and experiences of non-binary individuals and other LGBT+ people. I want to understand more about all the wonderful ways people can be and think and experience themselves.



IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 50,916

19 Aug 2022, 5:08 pm

^

Just to clarify my mind doesn't feel remotely masculine OR remotely feminine.
I'm not even sure what it would mean to "feel" masculine or feminine.
My brain is pure consciousness without any gender at all.

I look feminine because of biology.
I tend to wear feminine clothes because I like the sensory elements (soft fabrics, dresses).
I don't look masculine or try to be androgynous in appearance.
Also, I'm heterosexual - but that's my body talking.

Weird I know.
I have no idea if this is how non-binary normally presents.
I would rather use the term "ungendered" for my mind.
I hate that it suggests I'm androgynous, masculine, or bisexual.
Nothing against any of that ^ , but it's not me.

You should have seen me try to explain it to my boyfriend. LMAO



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,163
Location: England

20 Aug 2022, 5:39 am

I don't want to say I'm disappointed in my body. Poor thing, it doesn't deserve that. It produced a perfect human being so it deserves care and support, which I try to do. It is fragile and delicate and needs taking care of.

My mind, however, is not fragile. I've realised it works much faster than most human minds, leaping ahead while most of them are still at chapter 1. But I've discovered that society doesn't like intelligent, fast moving women. I've had to hide my intelligence for most of my life, asking questions in hesitant, subtle ways, smiling and being submissive and never getting straight to the point. I have to gradually shuffle up to the point so people can follow and understand. If I don't do this, I get called all sorts of unpleasant names, I get excluded and mocked.

My body and mind do not match in strength or speed. It is very debilitating and jarring.


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 50,916

20 Aug 2022, 9:39 am

KitLily wrote:
My mind, however, is not fragile. I've realised it works much faster than most human minds, leaping ahead while most of them are still at chapter 1. But I've discovered that society doesn't like intelligent, fast moving women. I've had to hide my intelligence for most of my life, asking questions in hesitant, subtle ways, smiling and being submissive and never getting straight to the point. I have to gradually shuffle up to the point so people can follow and understand. If I don't do this, I get called all sorts of unpleasant names, I get excluded and mocked.

My body and mind do not match in strength or speed. It is very debilitating and jarring.



Interesting observation.

I'm so clueless about gender norms, I didn't know society doesn't like intelligent or straight-forward women. I've never hidden my intelligence or pretended to be hesitant and submissive. I don't smile, and in fact I barely know how. Smiling makes my face hurt. Also, my subtlety hovers in the air like a brick does not. It's not that I try to be bold or assertive, but I just do whatever comes naturally without a filter or script. Most of the time I'm mute which is seen as cold or haughty, but it's because I'm afraid. When I'm comfortable, I act like I'm about 13 because I'm so enthusiastic I can't hold back.

No wonder I'm always perceived as an enigma.

Thanks for the insights.



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,163
Location: England

20 Aug 2022, 10:02 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Interesting observation.

I'm so clueless about gender norms, I didn't know society doesn't like intelligent or straight-forward women. I've never hidden my intelligence or pretended to be hesitant and submissive. I don't smile, and in fact I barely know how. Smiling makes my face hurt. Also, my subtlety hovers in the air like a brick does not. It's not that I try to be bold or assertive, but I just do whatever comes naturally without a filter or script. Most of the time I'm mute which is seen as cold or haughty, but it's because I'm afraid. When I'm comfortable, I act like I'm about 13 because I'm so enthusiastic I can't hold back.

No wonder I'm always perceived as an enigma.

Thanks for the insights.


I'm glad to have given you interesting information, that is my goal in life, in fact! Giving interesting information (which is also seen as showing off, know it all, condescending, arguing etc)

You could research this, apparently it's pretty well known. It would make a very interesting research topic. Even in popular culture e.g. the quote, 'guys don't make passes, at girls who wear glasses.'

Even when I was at school in the 1980s, girls were only just starting to be encouraged to study and go to university, I was told that the careers open to me were teaching or nursing.

Think of the stereotypes: the man going out to work as the breadwinner, the woman staying at home being a housewife.

On the other hand, all my life I've been far too aware of whether I'm liked or disliked. I am happy that you have never hidden your intelligence and suppressed yourself. We should all be allowed to do that, whoever we are. 8)


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 50,916

20 Aug 2022, 10:18 am

I knew of the stereotype of course, but I didn't know it was still a thing.
I never made the connection that it might actually matter in my life.
I've never spent much time with women as role models.
My mother was / is very outspoken without a filter, but I think she might be autistic too.

I didn't have a sister, I seldom saw my grandmothers, and I didn't have female friends.
My friends have almost exclusively been boys / men.
My daughter acts like me and would never submit to men.
She's quite a staunch feminist.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't fall for the rhetoric.
I doubt I could fake it if I tried.
I've never known how to "mask" or preplan any interaction.
I free-fall every time.



StrayCat81
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 24 Jul 2021
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 214
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

20 Aug 2022, 1:56 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
Never the two shall meet.

That seem to be the norm in autists (or maybe in humans in general?), wondering why...

Both of my sides interact with each other all the time, a bit like parent-child relation. The "body" (limbic system) figures out what we want to do, while "brain" (cerebral cortex) figures out how to accomplish it. The "body" sux at dealing with humans since they are vicious and dangerous monsters, so it "hides" behind the "brain" and lets it handle them. But while interacting with cats and dogs, "body" is happy to take over and have lots of fun, while "brain" can have some "rest" and just lazily observe the interaction :3



Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,118
Location: England

21 Aug 2022, 4:34 am

I think the only way I can think to describe it is having two people at the helm. One of them is a woman who feels very strongly that she is a woman, the other is a teenage boy. Whilst he usually takes a backseat, he sometimes wishes he had more control. This isn't a literal statement, I don't have multiple personalities, it's just a way of describing the abstract.

He wishes that he could be chivalrous, he also imagines himself as a leader and a protector. Frankly his ideas about gender are a little outdated. He also forgets how to function around his crushes and typically prefers to wear looser shirts to make my chest appear flat.

Whereas, the woman absolutes hates being thought of as masculine or male and especially dislikes being referred to by male pronouns. She will see it as a personal insult. However, she does not mind being referred to as they.

She prefers to wear clothing that makes me look more feminine and dislikes the chest appearing flat. Who is in charge of my wardrobe varies depending on the day or week. If I choose to ignore my brain, wearing the opposite of how I feel, then I experience discomfort and this lingering feeling that something is wrong. For a while I haven't been sure how to define this feeling but I know it's been around since puberty. Interestingly, I have noticed that how masculine or feminine I feel does seem to be influenced by the company I'm around.

I guess this technically means I fall into being non-binary, but that's not how I view myself. Rather, I am happiest when people refer to me as an androgynous woman. I see my gender as having a feminine side and an androgynous side. So long as I keep in step with how I'm feeling, I feel at peace and that my body and identity are connected.


_________________
23. Possibly B.A.P.


KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,163
Location: England

21 Aug 2022, 5:07 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I knew of the stereotype of course, but I didn't know it was still a thing.
I never made the connection that it might actually matter in my life.
I've never spent much time with women as role models.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't fall for the rhetoric.
I doubt I could fake it if I tried.
I've never known how to "mask" or preplan any interaction.
I free-fall every time.


Yes I just looked up on Google: 'do men like intelligent women' and there are lots of recent studies about this subject, some showing that men are intimidated by intelligent women. Even in the 21st century! I thought we had moved on but there are still people like this. Lots to be seen on social media in fact! :roll:


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,163
Location: England

21 Aug 2022, 5:14 am

Lost_dragon wrote:
I see my gender as having a feminine side and an androgynous side. So long as I keep in step with how I'm feeling, I feel at peace and that my body and identity are connected.


I agree. I have never, ever been the stereotyped woman i.e. giggly, obsessed with shopping, clothes, make up, jewellery etc. Can't stand any of that. I never had any idea of how to dress to look nice, I just wore logo t-shirts and jeans. I keep my hair short because I can't be bothered styling it, I just stick my head upside down and point the hairdryer at it. I never wear makeup or jewellery. Well, only on special occasions like going to a wedding.

I dress plainly and comfortably in clothes that aren't fussy or flowy and are easy to move around in.

Because I look like I do, everyone assumed I was a lesbian from when I was a young teenager. They were astounded when I got married to a man and had a baby! :lol: I have a friend who is a lesbian and she looks far more girly and feminine, so people are astounded when they find she is gay! People are so judgemental.

I was astounded when I had a baby too. Because I've never felt feminine, I assumed 'my bits' wouldn't work properly and I'd never get pregnant. But they work fine!

I was so glad I had a daughter because she has been a girly girl since birth and advised me what to wear and how to do my hair and make up from a young age :lol:


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


babybird
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 49,745
Location: UK

21 Aug 2022, 10:17 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
100% every word of the OP.

I've always felt dissociated from my body like it's a suitcase I need to drag around.
My brain and body have never felt integrated.

I'm just a floating consciousness without gender or form.


This is me so there's no point in me repeating it.

I thought it was to do with me having DID. I can actually feel sympathy for it because I've put it through hell and disconnected from it to the point where I'm watching it get abused. Also I put it through hell to make it look as good as possible so I can sell it.

It's a bit sad I suppose.

I am seeking therapy for this.


_________________
We have existence


Lost_dragon
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,118
Location: England

21 Aug 2022, 12:22 pm

KitLily wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
I see my gender as having a feminine side and an androgynous side. So long as I keep in step with how I'm feeling, I feel at peace and that my body and identity are connected.


I agree. I have never, ever been the stereotyped woman i.e. giggly, obsessed with shopping, clothes, make up, jewellery etc. Can't stand any of that. I never had any idea of how to dress to look nice, I just wore logo t-shirts and jeans. I keep my hair short because I can't be bothered styling it, I just stick my head upside down and point the hairdryer at it. I never wear makeup or jewellery. Well, only on special occasions like going to a wedding.

I dress plainly and comfortably in clothes that aren't fussy or flowy and are easy to move around in.

Because I look like I do, everyone assumed I was a lesbian from when I was a young teenager. They were astounded when I got married to a man and had a baby! :lol: I have a friend who is a lesbian and she looks far more girly and feminine, so people are astounded when they find she is gay! People are so judgemental.

I was astounded when I had a baby too. Because I've never felt feminine, I assumed 'my bits' wouldn't work properly and I'd never get pregnant. But they work fine!

I was so glad I had a daughter because she has been a girly girl since birth and advised me what to wear and how to do my hair and make up from a young age :lol:


Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being feminine but I wouldn't want to present that way all the time. I like wearing long flowy dresses I can twirl around in and I enjoy singing along to big theatrical songs. My hair is kept at a long or medium length, I dislike going to the hairdressers so I like to avoid it for as long as possible then have a fair amount cut off at once. At home visits are much cheaper, so I typically do that instead of going into a salon. I cut my own fringe a little every so often to keep it tidy.

I've never been one to be giggly (unless tipsy, hyper, or completely at ease with someone). Shopping is a little dull, I prefer to do so online. I think I have an idea of how to dress up though, in a smart casual androgynous way and also in a more feminine way, depending on the mood. I enjoy dressing up sometimes, although it can be a little annoying when people ask who I'm trying to impress. The only makeup I sometimes wear is nail polish because I hate how it feels anywhere else. My jewellery is minimal, I occasionally wear a small necklace, but that's about it. I don't typically style my hair.

People assumed I was gay as well growing up, but they were absolutely correct in my case. I've occasionally had a shocked or confused reaction (e.g. you're too feminine / but you don't have short hair? and so on) after coming out to others, but the vast majority of the time the response I get is "I called it" "This isn't news" or "I already assumed that". Whereas I have a friend and a lot of the time whenever he comes out to people, they are shocked and respond "Wait what?"


_________________
23. Possibly B.A.P.


HeroOfHyrule
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2020
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 9,217

21 Aug 2022, 1:43 pm

babybird wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
100% every word of the OP.

I've always felt dissociated from my body like it's a suitcase I need to drag around.
My brain and body have never felt integrated.

I'm just a floating consciousness without gender or form.


This is me so there's no point in me repeating it.

I thought it was to do with me having DID. I can actually feel sympathy for it because I've put it through hell and disconnected from it to the point where I'm watching it get abused. Also I put it through hell to make it look as good as possible so I can sell it.

It's a bit sad I suppose.

I am seeking therapy for this.

I don't have DID, but I do dissociate a lot due to trauma. A big part of any disconnect that I have to my body is probably due to that, especially since I've dissociated since I was 11-12. The past 9-10 years have mostly been one big foggy dream, and I usually feel very isolated from my body and reality, so now that's just basically my default state.



lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,173
Location: Lost on Earth, waddya think?

21 Aug 2022, 3:17 pm

I don't feel like my body is a mere meat bag. I feel more like it has a separate mind of its own and just plain hates me or just wants to annoy me as much as possible. Especially my brain. Sometimes I feel like I'm having real arguments with my brain, kind of like Homer Simpson, except I'm trying to talk sense into my own brain and not the other way around.



KitLily
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jan 2021
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,163
Location: England

21 Aug 2022, 3:34 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
People assumed I was gay as well growing up, but they were absolutely correct in my case. I've occasionally had a shocked or confused reaction (e.g. you're too feminine / but you don't have short hair? and so on) after coming out to others, but the vast majority of the time the response I get is "I called it" "This isn't news" or "I already assumed that". Whereas I have a friend and a lot of the time whenever he comes out to people, they are shocked and respond "Wait what?"


Gosh people are so judgemental, and think they know how a gay or straight person 'should' look don't they! There's no set way for people of different sexual orientations to look. :roll:


_________________
I am here for interesting, meaningful discussions and thoughtful, rewarding conversations. I very quickly lose interest in long, drawn-out arguments.
***
I'm sorry if I get you mixed up with other people, I'm not good at telling people apart. Just remind me of our last conversation then I'll know who you are.


StrayCat81
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

Joined: 24 Jul 2021
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 214
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

21 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm

HeroOfHyrule wrote:
I don't have DID, but I do dissociate a lot due to trauma. A big part of any disconnect that I have to my body is probably due to that, especially since I've dissociated since I was 11-12. The past 9-10 years have mostly been one big foggy dream, and I usually feel very isolated from my body and reality, so now that's just basically my default state.

Ehh, that is sad and also relatable. What I found useful is to not internalize that disconnect.

When I was a kid I got a bit disconnected too, because I just did not feel I have autonomy over myself. It felt like parents and even other adults can do whatever they want with me and I have very limited way of protecting myself. This was quite traumatic for me. But the more freedom and autonomy I got, the more I started reconnecting to it, especially since I started to have time to find more ways to enjoy it!