Italian Winemaker Defends Adolf Hitler-Branded Wine

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Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2022, 7:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Not that it matters...a genocide is a genocide....but Stalin certainly did kill more people than Hitler.


At least under Stalin you could survive if you kept quiet. Under Hitler if you were a jew, a PoC or disabled there was no place to hide.


From what one documentary stated, more Jews in the end died under Stalin than even under Hitler. Stalin's NKVD goons had a quota to keep when it came to executions and rounding up persons to go to gulags, and many of those ended up being Jews.


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18 Aug 2022, 7:53 pm

Not sure where you read that Kraichie?
On 12 January 1931, Stalin gave the following answer to an inquiry on the subject of the Soviet attitude toward antisemitism from the Jewish News Agency in the United States:

National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.


Stalin's greatest repression was the great purge between 1936-37. Although many of Great Purge victims were ethnic or religious Jews, they were not specifically targeted as an ethnic group during this campaign according to Jewish intellectuals of the time including Mikhail Baitalsky, Gennady Kostyrchenko, David Priestland, Jeffrey Veidlinger, Roy Medvedev and and Edvard Radzinsky.



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18 Aug 2022, 8:08 pm

I have never seen any pro-Stalin shirts or other stuff.
I suppose it exists somewhere, you can find anything you want online.


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cyberdad
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18 Aug 2022, 8:10 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I have never seen any pro-Stalin shirts or other stuff.
I suppose it exists somewhere, you can find anything you want online.


It's a red herring to take away focusing on Nazis. Hitler's beliefs of white supremecy still exist in the US. Stalin's beliefs in communism died when he did.



Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2022, 9:22 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Not sure where you read that Kraichie?
On 12 January 1931, Stalin gave the following answer to an inquiry on the subject of the Soviet attitude toward antisemitism from the Jewish News Agency in the United States:

National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.


Stalin's greatest repression was the great purge between 1936-37. Although many of Great Purge victims were ethnic or religious Jews, they were not specifically targeted as an ethnic group during this campaign according to Jewish intellectuals of the time including Mikhail Baitalsky, Gennady Kostyrchenko, David Priestland, Jeffrey Veidlinger, Roy Medvedev and and Edvard Radzinsky.


Well, that's what Stalin claimed, but one has to consider that that's the word of a psychopath. Toward the end of Stalin's life, there was the "doctors plot," in which a number of doctors - all Jewish - had been accused of attempting to kill Stalin. It's believed he was planning to implicate all Soviet Jews in an Anti-Stalinist conspiracy in order to purge their population.
Also, toward the end of WWII, when there was still negotiations going on between the Soviet Union and Germany, one of Hitler's propositions for a peace was that Stalin embrace Nazi Anti-Semitic policies. While those negotiations had failed, Stalin himself was said to have had no problem with embracing the precepts of Jewish genocide.


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Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2022, 9:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
I have never seen any pro-Stalin shirts or other stuff.
I suppose it exists somewhere, you can find anything you want online.


It's a red herring to take away focusing on Nazis. Hitler's beliefs of white supremecy still exist in the US. Stalin's beliefs in communism died when he did.


I absolutely agree. The last time there had been any Pro-Stalin sympathy in America had been prior to the revelations of his mass murders following his death. So, not since almost seventy years ago.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Aug 2022, 10:08 pm

Stalin and Hitler are the same class of person.

Genocide is genocide.



cyberdad
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18 Aug 2022, 10:10 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Stalin and Hitler are the same class of person.

Genocide is genocide.


A few things
Stalin was influenced by Marx
Hitler was influenced by American racist laws

Marxism is dead
America still carries the legacy of racism



Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2022, 10:44 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Stalin and Hitler are the same class of person.

Genocide is genocide.


A few things
Stalin was influenced by Marx
Hitler was influenced by American racist laws

Marxism is dead
America still carries the legacy of racism


That's sadly true.
Hitler and the Nazis were also influenced by a very superficial understanding of Nietzsche, even though Friedrich N held Anti-Semites in such contempt that he had implored the Kaiser to exile them all from Germany.


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cyberdad
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18 Aug 2022, 11:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Stalin and Hitler are the same class of person.

Genocide is genocide.


A few things
Stalin was influenced by Marx
Hitler was influenced by American racist laws

Marxism is dead
America still carries the legacy of racism


That's sadly true.
Hitler and the Nazis were also influenced by a very superficial understanding of Nietzsche, even though Friedrich N held Anti-Semites in such contempt that he had implored the Kaiser to exile them all from Germany.


Yes unfortunately Nietzsche is unnecessarily associated with Nazism. Hitler may have like his philosophy but that isn't an indictment on Nietsche's writing. Like cancelling the swastika when it's actually an indigenous Indian symbol which has nothing to do whatsoever with aryans.



Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2022, 11:34 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Stalin and Hitler are the same class of person.

Genocide is genocide.


A few things
Stalin was influenced by Marx
Hitler was influenced by American racist laws

Marxism is dead
America still carries the legacy of racism


That's sadly true.
Hitler and the Nazis were also influenced by a very superficial understanding of Nietzsche, even though Friedrich N held Anti-Semites in such contempt that he had implored the Kaiser to exile them all from Germany.


Yes unfortunately Nietzsche is unnecessarily associated with Nazism. Hitler may have like his philosophy but that isn't an indictment on Nietsche's writing. Like cancelling the swastika when it's actually an indigenous Indian symbol which has nothing to do whatsoever with aryans.


Actually, the swastika is an extremely old symbol that can be found all over the world, used by everyone from Native Americans to Indo-Europeans. Unfortunately, the Nazis transformed it into a symbol of evil.


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cyberdad
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19 Aug 2022, 1:59 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, the swastika is an extremely old symbol that can be found all over the world, used by everyone from Native Americans to Indo-Europeans. Unfortunately, the Nazis transformed it into a symbol of evil.


The oldest use of the swastika is in the Indus valley around 3000BC founded by indigenous dravidian people. Hitler's aryan invasion didn't happen in India till 1500BC.
Ironically the star of David is also indigenous to India and the oldest version is found in a hindu temple in Sri Lanka. The star of david symbol is associated with the indigenous dravidian god Murugan.



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19 Aug 2022, 2:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, it must only be a small part of the left, as I've never heard of anyone lionizing Stalin outside of Putin and his nationalist friends in Russia.


That's because you're sheltered and a normie, tankies and their imagery are quite common in leftist spaces.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Some progressives. Or do you paint whole groups of people with the same brush?


Oh, now you suddenly have a problem with broad generalizations? And yet you're the first to affirm them when they're made about the right, when you're not making them yourself of course. Annoying, isn't it?


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Dox47
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19 Aug 2022, 2:57 am

cyberdad wrote:
Marxism is dead


LOL, pull the other one.


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cyberdad
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19 Aug 2022, 4:19 am

Dox47 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Marxism is dead


LOL, pull the other one.


Seen anyone quoting Das Kapital?....nope
Seen anyone blowing up stuff in the name of marxism?....nope
Seen anyone walking around with images of Chairman Mao sewed into their jackets?....nope



Kraichgauer
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19 Aug 2022, 5:10 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, it must only be a small part of the left, as I've never heard of anyone lionizing Stalin outside of Putin and his nationalist friends in Russia.


That's because you're sheltered and a normie, tankies and their imagery are quite common in leftist spaces.

Kraichgauer wrote:
Some progressives. Or do you paint whole groups of people with the same brush?


Oh, now you suddenly have a problem with broad generalizations? And yet you're the first to affirm them when they're made about the right, when you're not making them yourself of course. Annoying, isn't it?


I might just resemble that remark. :lol: But when you get down to it, I'm critical of those on the right who think heartlessness is a virtue, who think someone's worth is based on their material wealth or success, or those extreme righties who have embraced white nationalism and Christian nationalism to the exclusion of everyone else, or those who believe every whackadoodle conspiracy theory, and who have fallen into the Trump cult of personality, etc., etc., etc. I have been consistent in that regard, and I fail to see how I'm wrong about any of that.
Am I naïve and sheltered? Well, that just means I'm exposed to the mainstream left, not to tiny, insignificant extreme leftist groups puffing themselves up to be more than they are.


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