Historic Drought Unveils Dinosaur Tracks in North Texas

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kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2022, 7:57 am

There could have been a big flood in the Levant around 2300 BC or so. That doesn’t prove that there was a Noah or an Ark.

This two of every species thing…..is an obvious instance of allegory.



Twilightprincess
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28 Aug 2022, 8:00 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There could have been a big flood in the Levant around 2300 BC or so. That doesn’t prove that there was a Noah or an Ark.
That wouldn’t be good enough for fundamentalists. They insist that it was a global flood.

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This two of every species thing…..is an obvious instance of allegory.
When I was a kid, I thought that it must have been sort of like that scene in The Sword in the Stone when all those objects get smaller as they hop into Merlin’s bag. I was rather proud of myself for this completely satisfactory solution to the problem. :P (The fact that there is no evidence for this in the Bible was inconsequential to me.)


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naturalplastic
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28 Aug 2022, 8:23 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
There could have been a big flood in the Levant around 2300 BC or so. That doesn’t prove that there was a Noah or an Ark.
That wouldn’t be good enough for fundamentalists. They insist that it was a global flood.
)


Yes.
Has to be global.
Has to "cover up the tallest mountains in the world". Mount Everest is five and half miles tall. So it had to cover the world with at least that deep water.



kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2022, 8:27 am

I would bet that the those folks who lived in the Levant around 2300 BC thought that the peak of Mount Ararat was the ultimate in height.



naturalplastic
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28 Aug 2022, 8:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I would bet that the those folks who lived in the Levant around 2300 BC thought that the peak of Mount Ararat was the ultimate in height.


Mt. Ararat is 17000 feet tall. The average depth of the ocean is 15 thousand feet. The Ocean would have to more than double its depth to first drown Mt. Ararat, and then ...for the water level to gradually drop down to its summit so the Ark could rest upon the summit.

:lol:

Obviously the story could be based upon some real flood (though the Flood could not have happened at the date of 2300 BC- which was the golden age of the reign of Sargon the Great of Babylonia- when there was no record of a regional flood). Even secular scholars, and outright atheists suggest that. But any real regional flood would have had to have deviated from the LITERAL description in the Bible.



naturalplastic
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28 Aug 2022, 9:06 am

The Bible story is derived from older middle eastern tales of a vast flood. They trace back to Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh - in which a Noah like dude saves his family and all of the animals of the world in a boat. The earliest references to the myth go back to 2800 BC. So the real flood, if it happened, would been farther back in time.

Interestingly the real "Ark", or boat, was likely an oversized circular woven basket -with water proofing.

Here Dr Finkelstein, head of the British Oriental Institute, lectures on how he attempted to recreate that actual Ark of Mesopotamian legend (that in turn inspired the Biblical story).



Ark



kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2022, 9:07 am

The Flood is an obvious allegorical story. Maybe an alternative “creation” or “re-creation” myth.



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28 Aug 2022, 9:08 am

I think various stories in the Bible could be tall tales that got bigger and bigger with the retelling until they were written down. Maybe some guy put a few of his livestock animals on a raft/boat to get them away from regional flood waters. Maybe some of his neighbors died in the flood. Eventually, that guy could have become Noah.


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kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2022, 1:35 pm

Yep….like the game of “telephone.”

If one looks at the creation myths of cultures “civilized” and “primitive,” one sees many similarities between them.



cyberdad
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28 Aug 2022, 5:19 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
If my memory serves me correctly the biblical curriculum in some American schools actually posit that human footprints are found in conjunction with dinosaur footprints claiming that Dinosaurs co-existed with humans. Strangely no mention of giant sauropods in the bible though :lol:


No American public school teaches that.

But there is nongovernment industry of book publishing, and film making, devoted to promoting young earth creationism, and evolution denial.

And there are Creationist museums that have dioramas showing human cave man families living side by side with dinosaurs (the Flintstone cartoons come to life).


Yes individual teachers do
And about 13% of the teachers emphasised to their students that creationism was a valid scientific alternative to modern evolutionary biology
https://evolution-outreach.biomedcentra ... 20-00126-8

When I was a student back in the 1980s I did also hear that religious schools in the US do not teach evolution. I recall because everyone in my class thought Americans were wacky.



naturalplastic
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28 Aug 2022, 6:26 pm

Yes. I said "public schools".

There are religious schools here in the US that teach creationism.

And yes...Americans are whacky that way. Though...you Aussies produced both Ken Haim, and Mel Gibson! And I met a Jewish lady in Florida once who had a religious fanatic son who had moved to Australia, and complained in a letter to her that "there were no one sex only beaches in Australia". So apparently Australia produces, and attracts, its share of the religious lunatic fringe as well.



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28 Aug 2022, 8:53 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Yes. I said "public schools".

There are religious schools here in the US that teach creationism.

And yes...Americans are whacky that way. Though...you Aussies produced both Ken Haim, and Mel Gibson! And I met a Jewish lady in Florida once who had a religious fanatic son who had moved to Australia, and complained in a letter to her that "there were no one sex only beaches in Australia". So apparently Australia produces, and attracts, its share of the religious lunatic fringe as well.


Mel Gibson is a New Zealander



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28 Aug 2022, 11:20 pm

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yes. I said "public schools".

There are religious schools here in the US that teach creationism.

And yes...Americans are whacky that way. Though...you Aussies produced both Ken Haim, and Mel Gibson! And I met a Jewish lady in Florida once who had a religious fanatic son who had moved to Australia, and complained in a letter to her that "there were no one sex only beaches in Australia". So apparently Australia produces, and attracts, its share of the religious lunatic fringe as well.


Mel Gibson is a New Zealander


He was born in upstate New York, USA. With his parents he moved to Australia when he was 12, and did the rest of his growing up in Australia. And it was in Australia he made his film acting debute, including in his break out role as a soldier in the Australian made movie "Gallipoli".

Wiki says he now has citizenship in both the US, and in Ireland (not Australia now). But I cant find any mention of him ever setting foot in New Zealand.

So how is Mel Gibson a "New Zealander"?



naturalplastic
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30 Aug 2022, 2:48 am

naturalplastic wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Yes. I said "public schools".

There are religious schools here in the US that teach creationism.

And yes...Americans are whacky that way. Though...you Aussies produced both Ken Haim, and Mel Gibson! And I met a Jewish lady in Florida once who had a religious fanatic son who had moved to Australia, and complained in a letter to her that "there were no one sex only beaches in Australia". So apparently Australia produces, and attracts, its share of the religious lunatic fringe as well.


Mel Gibson is a New Zealander


He was born in upstate New York, USA. With his parents he moved to Australia when he was 12, and did the rest of his growing up in Australia. And it was in Australia he made his film acting debute, including in his break out role as a soldier in the Australian made movie "Gallipoli".

Wiki says he now has citizenship in both the US, and in Ireland (not Australia now). But I cant find any mention of him ever setting foot in New Zealand.

So how is Mel Gibson a "New Zealander"?


Well?

Answer my question.



cyberdad
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30 Aug 2022, 2:53 am

Would you believe it. I got him mixed up with Russell Crowe! how embarrassing :oops: