Teacher gets $95,000 settlement for refusing to use pronouns

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League_Girl
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05 Sep 2022, 3:40 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Teacher only won because religion is a protected class but what if Kansas has laws that protected transgender students? This would be interesting to hear such case. What to do when both laws clash against each other.

What religion is anti-trans? :?


Did you read the article?


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05 Sep 2022, 3:44 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
It's a legitimate question.

Why refuse the most basics of polite communications with people?


You're begging the question, as use of preferred pronouns is still a live debate, and not a settled issue in any sense. To me, demanding to be treated differently than everyone else is just that, a demand, and it would be weird whether it was cultural, e.g. if I moved to Japan and insisted on being addressed as "Mr Dox" rather than "Dox-san", or gender related.

goldfish21 wrote:
Do you intentionally misgender anyone else when you know, or assume, what their preferred pronouns are? Do you refer to cis-gendered males as Miss or Mrs? Do you call your mother Sir? My guess is no, so why not extend the same courtesy to others and simply refer to them as they identify?


Intentionally misgendering someone is not the same thing as refusing to use a non standard form of address, like most people I go off of which gender the person appears to be, a system that has served well for millennia.


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goldfish21
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05 Sep 2022, 3:46 pm

League_Girl wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Teacher only won because religion is a protected class but what if Kansas has laws that protected transgender students? This would be interesting to hear such case. What to do when both laws clash against each other.

What religion is anti-trans? :?


Did you read the article?

Just skimmed it. Sounds like BS to me. I've read the bible and don't recall there being a chapter about binary genders. I do recall reading, hearing, and being taught, that Jesus preached being loving and respectful to all people - not just the ones you don't want to hate. Sounds like this woman needs to go back to Sunday school.


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05 Sep 2022, 3:47 pm

Misgendering someone is refusing to use the pronoun they identify with. If a student states that they want to be referred to as they/them, using another pronoun is misgendering.


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goldfish21
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05 Sep 2022, 3:48 pm

Dox47 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
It's a legitimate question.

Why refuse the most basics of polite communications with people?


You're begging the question, as use of preferred pronouns is still a live debate, and not a settled issue in any sense. To me, demanding to be treated differently than everyone else is just that, a demand, and it would be weird whether it was cultural, e.g. if I moved to Japan and insisted on being addressed as "Mr Dox" rather than "Dox-san", or gender related.

goldfish21 wrote:
Do you intentionally misgender anyone else when you know, or assume, what their preferred pronouns are? Do you refer to cis-gendered males as Miss or Mrs? Do you call your mother Sir? My guess is no, so why not extend the same courtesy to others and simply refer to them as they identify?


Intentionally misgendering someone is not the same thing as refusing to use a non standard form of address, like most people I go off of which gender the person appears to be, a system that has served well for millennia.

How is requesting the same respect others are given a demand of special treatment?

Ok. Then when a trans-man dresses and presents themselves as a man, do you refer to them as Mr./Sir/He etc? Or are you intentionally rude to them because ___ ?


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Dox47
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05 Sep 2022, 4:03 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
How is requesting the same respect others are given a demand of special treatment?


If you read more carefully, you'd see that what I'm objecting to are non-standard pronouns, which by their very nature are a form of special treatment. I'm being asked to go out of my way to do something differently for someone, and I believe I have the right to say no.

goldfish21 wrote:
Ok. Then when a trans-man dresses and presents themselves as a man, do you refer to them as Mr./Sir/He etc? Or are you intentionally rude to them because ___ ?


Like I already said, I address people as the gender they appear to be.


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goldfish21
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05 Sep 2022, 5:17 pm

No, you're being asked to treat people with the same dignity and respect afforded to others. That's it, that's all. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap your mind around.


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Last edited by goldfish21 on 05 Sep 2022, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Matrix Glitch
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05 Sep 2022, 8:50 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Teacher only won because religion is a protected class but what if Kansas has laws that protected transgender students? This would be interesting to hear such case. What to do when both laws clash against each other.

What religion is anti-trans? :?


Did you read the article?

Just skimmed it. Sounds like BS to me. I've read the bible and don't recall there being a chapter about binary genders. I do recall reading, hearing, and being taught, that Jesus preached being loving and respectful to all people - not just the ones you don't want to hate. Sounds like this woman needs to go back to Sunday school.

If you had studied the Bible adequately you would know what is said about that. in a nutshell, God created male and female and the two marry and bear children. And that there should be no variation of that design.



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05 Sep 2022, 8:55 pm

What Are The 78 Gender Pronouns?

Gender-neutral Pronouns, and How to Use Them

He/She — Zie, Sie, Ey, Ve, Tey, E.
Him/Her — Zim, Sie, Em, Ver, Ter, Em.
His/Her — Zir, Hir, Eir, Vis, Tem, Eir.
His/Hers — Zis, Hirs, Eirs, Vers, Ters, Eirs.
Himself/Herself — Zieself, Hirself, Eirself, Verself, Terself, Emself.

https://dictionary.tn/what-are-the-78-g ... ronouns-2/



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05 Sep 2022, 9:05 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Teacher only won because religion is a protected class but what if Kansas has laws that protected transgender students? This would be interesting to hear such case. What to do when both laws clash against each other.

What religion is anti-trans? :?


Did you read the article?

Just skimmed it. Sounds like BS to me. I've read the bible and don't recall there being a chapter about binary genders. I do recall reading, hearing, and being taught, that Jesus preached being loving and respectful to all people - not just the ones you don't want to hate. Sounds like this woman needs to go back to Sunday school.

If you had studied the Bible adequately you would know what is said about that. in a nutshell, God created male and female and the two marry and bear children. And that there should be no variation of that design.


Mmhmm. And apparently all creations are God’s creations and God doesn’t make mistakes so trans people are God’s creations, also made in his/her image, just the same as everyone else.

Bigots will twist biblical statements into pretzels to justify their hatred for their fellow man who may be different from themselves. Rather un-Christianlike. Shame they won’t figure it out until they go to hell and wonder why they didn’t earn a place in the good afterlife.


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Matrix Glitch
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05 Sep 2022, 9:18 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
If you had studied the Bible adequately you would know what is said about that. in a nutshell, God created male and female and the two marry and bear children. And that there should be no variation of that design.


Mmhmm. And apparently all creations are God’s creations and God doesn’t make mistakes so trans people are God’s creations, also made in his/her image, just the same as everyone else.

Bigots will twist biblical statements into pretzels to justify their hatred for their fellow man who may be different from themselves. Rather un-Christianlike. Shame they won’t figure it out until they go to hell and wonder why they didn’t earn a place in the good afterlife.


The flaw in that argument is it can be applied to an endless array of human traits and defects. The Bible also makes it clear sinfulness of man has warped God's creation. Look at the state the planet Earth is in now. It's not as God originally designed and created it, is it?

Hell is for those who reject salvation through Jesus Christ, which no one earns.



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05 Sep 2022, 9:43 pm

I’ve thoroughly studied the Bible which led me to thoroughly reject its teachings. I wouldn’t want to follow a book that upholds bigotry or worship its petty god. It’s not a perfect book. It contains many contradictions, stories that go against science, and many others that can’t be proven.

That’s not to say that ALL of the Bible is bad. The Golden Rule is nice and is probably applicable to this discussion. The story of creation and the Garden of Eden is obviously a fable/origin story. I enjoy it for what it is.


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05 Sep 2022, 9:51 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
No, you're being asked to treat people with the same dignity and respected afforded to others. That's it, that's all. It's not that hard of a concept to wrap your mind around.


Once again, mischaracterizing what I said.


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05 Sep 2022, 9:52 pm

If the bible is to be believed, God made woman from man’s rib, sooooo, Eve was a trans woman.


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05 Sep 2022, 9:55 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
If you had studied the Bible adequately you would know what is said about that. in a nutshell, God created male and female and the two marry and bear children. And that there should be no variation of that design.


Mmhmm. And apparently all creations are God’s creations and God doesn’t make mistakes so trans people are God’s creations, also made in his/her image, just the same as everyone else.

Bigots will twist biblical statements into pretzels to justify their hatred for their fellow man who may be different from themselves. Rather un-Christianlike. Shame they won’t figure it out until they go to hell and wonder why they didn’t earn a place in the good afterlife.


The flaw in that argument is it can be applied to an endless array of human traits and defects. The Bible also makes it clear sinfulness of man has warped God's creation. Look at the state the planet Earth is in now. It's not as God originally designed and created it, is it?

Hell is for those who reject salvation through Jesus Christ, which no one earns.




'JeSuS,' 'According to Matthew,' 'Begs' to Differ;

'YOU' MUST 'EARN' YOUR WAY TO THE KINGDOM
OF HEAVEN WITHIN ACCORDING TO MATTHEW FOR REAL;

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Matthew KJV, Chapter 25, Verses 31 Through 46:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal".

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goldfish21
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05 Sep 2022, 10:02 pm

Most/all trans ppl I know (several) go by he/him or her/she. The one I’m kinda seeing says he’s okay with male or female pronouns & doesn’t care. He doesn’t take offence to any of this stuff At All and takes transphobic comments in stride like water off a ducks back for the most part. Crap like that irritates me more than him.

It’s the rarer non-binary folks that sometimes go by they/them - which can be confusing at times when you’re not used to saying they/them out loud.

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone that goes by Mx. instead of Mr/Miss. So far that’s just something I’ve read on the internet.

Edit: A post got deleted. Makes this one seem sort of random. Whatever.


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