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QFT
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14 Sep 2022, 12:02 pm

Each political side can claim that they are "woke" to the issues that the other side, in their opinion, neglects. So using the word "woke" in reference to leftists would assume that both you and your audience are taking left side, which is not always true. Wouldn't right-wingers want to call themselves as "woke" and leftists as "asleep" in their own rhetoric?



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14 Sep 2022, 1:39 pm

I don't think that word is misused at all.


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14 Sep 2022, 2:09 pm

No, the term refers to a style of identitarian beliefs and politics, the underlying meaning of the word "woke" itself is largely irrelevant.


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14 Sep 2022, 3:03 pm

Woke means different things to different people I see this word being tossed by the right about things they don't like and this word has lost its meaning now I have decided to quit using it because no one will know what I mean by it. They can't read my mind and I don't want to say what I mean everytime whenever I use the word.


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14 Sep 2022, 6:37 pm

"Woke" originated in the black community. It originally meant being hyper-aware of racism. Due to the weaponization process, it has evolved into meaning an ideology based on these beliefs.
1. The United States has been systematically racist from the get-go.

2. Groups you are born into are central to your identity.

3. All white people are racist due to being privileged.

4. Blacks can be prejudiced but can not be racist because they are members of an oppressed group.

5. Privilege is not a matter of individual circumstances but group power dynamics. If an individual is in a privileged group they often do not realize the racist things they say and do because they do not have the lived experience of being a member of an out-of-power oppressed group.

6. Presentism - We should judge historical figures, not by the times they lived in but by woke orthodoxy.

7. Individuals are judged primarily by their racism, other factors are secondary or irrelevant.

8. Equity - Equality of outcome.

9. People espousing core tenets of the 1960s Civil Rights movement such as integration, equality of opportunity, "judging people by the content of their charactor, not the color of their skin", merit is further entrenching systematic racism by deflecting from the 24/7 examination of how systematic racism infects nearly all aspects of life.

10. Allyship refers to members of privileged groups who support oppressed groups by "doing the work" to understand how the seemingly innocuous actions that they do contribute to systematic racism and by not questioning woke orthodoxy. If don't have lived experience, they don't have the right to criticize.

11. People who are unwilling or unable to be allies need to be canceled along with all ideas that deviate from woke orthodoxy. This is done by various methods of intimidation, getting people fired, having protests at homes, doxing, online shaming, tearing down statues etc.

I have been using race but this goes to all types of ists and phobics. There are what are known as "hierarchies of oppression /privileged" groups. Those groups that are close enough in skin color to mooch off the privileges of being white are known as "white adjacent". Asian-Americans and Jews are the groups most often associated with "white adjacent"


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14 Sep 2022, 7:30 pm

IOW "All white people are the Devil!" :evil:


I would ask why can't we all just get along but apparently there was a guy who got brutally beatened up by the police back in the 1990's for asking that exact same question. :shrug:



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14 Sep 2022, 7:59 pm

I will make my standard observation on this word: if you don't like it, please suggest an alternative, as we're using "woke" entirely due to the fact that this ideology (ASPM described it quite well) refuses to accept a label.


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15 Sep 2022, 2:44 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
IOW "All white people are the Devil!" :evil:


I would ask why can't we all just get along but apparently there was a guy who got brutally beatened up by the police back in the 1990's for asking that exact same question. :shrug:

That person was Rodney King. After the police involved were acquitted Los Angeles erupted in massive deadly rioting. It was during the riots that King made this plea


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15 Sep 2022, 7:32 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
DeathFlowerKing wrote:
IOW "All white people are the Devil!" :evil:


I would ask why can't we all just get along but apparently there was a guy who got brutally beatened up by the police back in the 1990's for asking that exact same question. :shrug:

That person was Rodney King. After the police involved were acquitted Los Angeles erupted in massive deadly rioting. It was during the riots that King made this plea


Dejavu, no?



QFT
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15 Sep 2022, 7:37 am

League_Girl wrote:
I see this word being tossed by the right about things they don't like


See, thats what I mean this word is being misused. The word "woke" should be used as a positive by both sides:

Woke = not asleep = Not deluded = Sees reality

So the right should be referring to THEMESELVES as woke, and to leftists that they don't like as asleep

The fact that they do the opposite shows that they are misusing the word



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15 Sep 2022, 9:00 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
11. People who are unwilling or unable to be allies need to be canceled along with all ideas that deviate from woke orthodoxy. This is done by various methods of intimidation, getting people fired, having protests at homes, doxing, online shaming,

This aspect is not ideology-specific but is mainly a consequence of today's social media, as far as I can tell.

Before the rise of social media, boycotts ("canceling" in today's parlance) were much harder to launch, hence there were a lot fewer boycotts, and they usually were focused only on the more extreme provocations. Political movements sometimes went through phases in which very nasty infighting was a big problem, but people eventually recognized this as counterproductive and moved on, or eventually learned to debate without making it personal.

These days, alas, online harassment has become commonplace, including doxxing, harassment, and online shaming -- and it's certainly NOT limited to leftists or "woke" people. Notorious examples from other quarters include KiwiFarms and Gamergate.


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15 Sep 2022, 9:15 am

QFT wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
I see this word being tossed by the right about things they don't like


See, thats what I mean this word is being misused. The word "woke" should be used as a positive by both sides:

Woke = not asleep = Not deluded = Sees reality

So the right should be referring to THEMESELVES as woke, and to leftists that they don't like as asleep

The fact that they do the opposite shows that they are misusing the word

They don’t give a s**t. All they care about is that the word is an effective pejorative.

Not that they care but they don’t think of people that believe in woke orthodoxy as asleep. They think they are actively involved in overturning everything they hold dear.


I would disagree the anti wokeness is wholly a right wing issue. Plenty of liberals and progressives have problems with them.


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ASPartOfMe
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15 Sep 2022, 9:46 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
11. People who are unwilling or unable to be allies need to be canceled along with all ideas that deviate from woke orthodoxy. This is done by various methods of intimidation, getting people fired, having protests at homes, doxing, online shaming,

This aspect is not ideology-specific but is mainly a consequence of today's social media, as far as I can tell.

Before the rise of social media, boycotts ("canceling" in today's parlance) were much harder to launch, hence there were a lot fewer boycotts, and they usually were focused only on the more extreme provocations. Political movements sometimes went through phases in which very nasty infighting was a big problem, but people eventually recognized this as counterproductive and moved on, or eventually learned to debate without making it personal.

These days, alas, online harassment has become commonplace, including doxxing, harassment, and online shaming -- and it's certainly NOT limited to leftists or "woke" people. Notorious examples from other quarters include KiwiFarms and Gamergate.

I am quite aware the conservatives not only do cancelling but have been doing it long before woke people were born. I started a thread about that. I had social media in mind when I wrote in the OP “ It was the conservatives that wrote the book. All the wokes have done is written the updated edition.” As I wrote a few posts down “ The wokes have just expanded upon what some of the conservatives did in part because they have the technology to do it. You could not just google and find out somebody did something you do not like 100 years ago. Everything tweet of yours was not recorded for some offense archeologist to dig up.”

While not limited to leftists to be you need to be into both canceling and presentism to be woke. There are leftists that agree with Critical Race theory but don’t agree with canceling or judging historical figures by solely by the current expanded definition of racism.


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15 Sep 2022, 9:53 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
an ideology based on these beliefs.

1. The United States has been systematically racist from the get-go.

2. Groups you are born into are central to your identity.

3. All white people are racist due to being privileged.

4. Blacks can be prejudiced but can not be racist because they are members of an oppressed group.

5. Privilege is not a matter of individual circumstances but group power dynamics. If an individual is in a privileged group they often do not realize the racist things they say and do because they do not have the lived experience of being a member of an out-of-power oppressed group.

[...]

10. Allyship refers to members of privileged groups who support oppressed groups by "doing the work" to understand how the seemingly innocuous actions that they do contribute to systematic racism [...]. If don't have lived experience, they don't have the right to criticize.
[...]

I have been using race but this goes to all types of ists and phobics. There are what are known as "hierarchies of oppression /privileged" groups.

The above subset of your list of beliefs and practices has been pretty standard within the anti-racist and feminist movements since the early 1980's or so. They were already common in activist circles when, for a few months, I volunteered at a local feminist newspaper in 1981.

"Allyship" generally occurred in the context of an alliance between activists for the rights of different marginalized groups. Up to a point at least, the rules of "allyship" make sense in that context.


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ASPartOfMe
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15 Sep 2022, 10:22 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
an ideology based on these beliefs.

1. The United States has been systematically racist from the get-go.

2. Groups you are born into are central to your identity.

3. All white people are racist due to being privileged.

4. Blacks can be prejudiced but can not be racist because they are members of an oppressed group.

5. Privilege is not a matter of individual circumstances but group power dynamics. If an individual is in a privileged group they often do not realize the racist things they say and do because they do not have the lived experience of being a member of an out-of-power oppressed group.

[...]

10. Allyship refers to members of privileged groups who support oppressed groups by "doing the work" to understand how the seemingly innocuous actions that they do contribute to systematic racism [...]. If don't have lived experience, they don't have the right to criticize.
[...]

I have been using race but this goes to all types of ists and phobics. There are what are known as "hierarchies of oppression /privileged" groups.

The above subset of your list of beliefs and practices has been pretty standard within the anti-racist and feminist movements since the early 1980's or so. They were already common in activist circles when, for a few months, I volunteered at a local feminist newspaper in 1981.

"Allyship" generally occurred in the context of an alliance between activists for the rights of different marginalized groups. Up to a point at least, the rules of "allyship" make sense in that context.

Critical Race Theory goes back to then and before also. At that time they were outliers who were not effecting government and corporate policy. Also while all of the ideas on my list existed in some form they had not congealed into an ideology that became a phenomenon. In 1982 99 percent of the people would say if you were not a racist you were against racism. In wokeism this is split. Non racists who are not racists are enablers of racism and thus worse then open racists.

All of the above relates to the topic of this thread. In order for a pejorative term to gain currency it has to be describing something that is popular enough that people have a general idea of what it is.


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15 Sep 2022, 11:46 am

QFT wrote:
Each political side can claim that they are "woke" to the issues that the other side, in their opinion, neglects. So using the word "woke" in reference to leftists would assume that both you and your audience are taking left side, which is not always true. Wouldn't right-wingers want to call themselves as "woke" and leftists as "asleep" in their own rhetoric?

According to Wikipedia, the term "woke" was popularized by Black Lives Matter activists in 2014 or so. Then:

Quote:
The terms woke capitalism and woke-washing were coined to describe companies who signal support for progressive causes as a substitute for genuine change. By 2020, parts of the political center and right wing in several Western countries were using the term woke, often in an ironic way, as an insult for various progressive or leftist movements and ideologies perceived as overzealous, performative, or insincere. In turn, some commentators came to consider it an offensive term with negative associations to those who promote political ideas involving identity and race.


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