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ironpony
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13 Oct 2022, 12:50 am

Oh no I haven't watched them. You didn't say election fraud though before, you said 'install himself as dictator', which was open to different interpretation by me.

Plus if he is guilty of these crimes, why don't they charge him or what is stopping them? If it's because he has money, is he paying the courts off with bribes then?



goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 1:05 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh no I haven't watched them. You didn't say election fraud though before, you said 'install himself as dictator', which was open to different interpretation by me.

Plus if he is guilty of these crimes, why don't they charge him or what is stopping them? If it's because he has money, is he paying the courts off with bribes then?


It's all still being investigated. It's a massive conspiracy case involving tons of people - government employees, various agencies, politicians, civilians etc. The J6 committee alone interviewed more than 1,000 people. The DOJ is likely interviewing TONS of people as well. The US legal system is very complex and requires that things be done very thoroughly in very specific ways in order for evidence to be admissible in court etc etc. It's not so cut and dry as some simple bike theft caught on video, so they have to take the time necessary to gather all the facts and info they need before they can decide whether they have everything required to charge him and aim for a conviction.

trump keeps being trump and deploying every possible delay tactic that he can in every case that he can, trying to drag things out for as long as possible in hopes that he gets away with things. He's also trying to drag things out hoping that some cases that are working their way through the courts right now get decided in his favour that would then help out his other cases - specifically a case challenging something in the US constitution that would allow state governors or some state government body to toss aside the electors determined by votes and install whatever ones they want instead - which is wild and crazy and I have no idea if it has a chance of actually becoming legal.. but if it does then trump can say he wasn't trying to steal the election, he just interpreted the rules differently blah blah blah. trump is hoping that the judges he appointed rule in his favour - even though they're all supposed to be impartial.

So.. it's complicated. WAY more complicated than a brief post here can explain.. but basically, the good guys are doing their thorough work so that if he's charged they have all the evidence to try to convict him.. and trump is delaying by any means possible in order to avoid accountability & consequences as he's done his entire life.


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ironpony
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13 Oct 2022, 1:13 am

Oh okay. It just seems like their have been two attempts already, and it makes me wonder if not enough evidence is there. Unless those were not actually two attempts and it was all just one big ongoing investigation that is still going. But even so, why all this obsession with Trump still... Can't people just wait to see what happens and take a chill pill, rather than the constant obsession all over social media?



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13 Oct 2022, 2:00 am

ironpony wrote:
But even so, why all this obsession with Trump still... Can't people just wait to see what happens and take a chill pill, rather than the constant obsession all over social media?


Because trump is a symptom of something underlying American society linked with class envy and 400 years of brainwashing. The underlying problem emerged in 2016. Trump was merely a conduit for those feelings simmering beneath the surface in white America being allowed to remerge for the first time in probably 60-70 years.



ironpony
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13 Oct 2022, 2:05 am

Are you sure that is not exaggerating though? I mean republicans have been Presidents before, what made this one so different? I mean just because their is a majority vote, why take it so personally if the person you don't vote for loses? Can't we all just agree that sometimes in a vote a certain person will win, and that's okay, in the voting system?



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13 Oct 2022, 2:08 am

ironpony wrote:
Are you sure that is not exaggerating though? I mean republicans have been Presidents before, what made this one so different? I mean just because their is a majority vote, why take it so personally if the person you don't vote for loses? Can't we all just agree that sometimes in a vote a certain person will win, and that's okay, in the voting system?


Yeah but values have changed as well. History doesn't freeze....it keeps moving. We don't burn witches anymore like they did in Salem but that doesn't mean that given the right conditions mobs of christians might grab pitchforks and attack the capitol building....oh wait...they did that on Jan 6 already



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13 Oct 2022, 10:42 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. It just seems like their have been two attempts already, and it makes me wonder if not enough evidence is there. Unless those were not actually two attempts and it was all just one big ongoing investigation that is still going. But even so, why all this obsession with Trump still... Can't people just wait to see what happens and take a chill pill, rather than the constant obsession all over social media?


Which two attempts? trump's two impeachments? Everyone knew he was guilty, but his republican boot lickers voted to acquit him. This is the (federal) Department of Justice investigating him (as well as State agencies) for potential criminal charges.

No other human alive has done what he has against the USA. He's also a washed up reality tv star that knows how to get himself inserted into news headlines by saying crazy bombastic crap on the daily, so, he remains in the news. Even when he doesn't say anything, he does something crazy. So, crazy guy remains in the news until crazy guy is gone for good and anything more interesting or exciting replaces him.


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goldfish21
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13 Oct 2022, 10:46 am

ironpony wrote:
Are you sure that is not exaggerating though? I mean republicans have been Presidents before, what made this one so different? I mean just because their is a majority vote, why take it so personally if the person you don't vote for loses? Can't we all just agree that sometimes in a vote a certain person will win, and that's okay, in the voting system?


It's as if you haven't watched any news or read anything about trump for the last 7 years. You can't spot the differences between this guy and some other republican president in the past? :?

Um, that's the concept of Democracy that many in America are trying to preserve right now. But trump has his cult followers convinced that voting shouldn't matter anymore, he, as orange jesus, should simply get to rule.. and millions of people agree with that crazy talk. So, here we are watching America debate it and then cast their votes in various elections to either uphold Democracy and have a system of electing officials, or elect people that promise to do away with elections and just seize power of the country indefinitely and install some sort of authoritarian ruler style crapola like putin is to Russia.

With the USA being a major super power, all of this is kind of a big deal.


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ironpony
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13 Oct 2022, 11:41 pm

Oh okay, it's just that I don't think his cult followers could successfully overthrow the government in order to install him as dictator though. But if Trump is prosecuted, found guilty, and thrown in jail for example, couldn't that make things worse in a sense, that his followers might retaliate even harder, if they are so dangerous and unstable?



goldfish21
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14 Oct 2022, 1:27 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, it's just that I don't think his cult followers could successfully overthrow the government in order to install him as dictator though. But if Trump is prosecuted, found guilty, and thrown in jail for example, couldn't that make things worse in a sense, that his followers might retaliate even harder, if they are so dangerous and unstable?

It’s not the red hat gang that are such a threat to democracy. They may be a threat to other citizens if they lose their minds and start shooting, though.

It’s all of the politicians & politically active people that are working to alter the election processes/ignore votes and democracy/gerrymander districts/make it ever more difficult for certain demographics to vote/not count votes they don’t like etc etc etc there are tons of trumpy people who’s aim it is to get rid of the voting system as it exists and just say trump/whoever their idol of the time is is ruler and that’s that kind of crazy BS.

There are many video explanations of their efforts on YouTube and other sites.

There’s also the series of hearings from the January 6th committee that detail what happened leading up to the election and J6. Have you watched them? They’re about FAR MORE than the rag tag group of cosplayers that stole pelosi’s podium and tried to hang mike pence.


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ironpony
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15 Oct 2022, 12:38 am

I can look into it more for sure. And I can see what happens with this investigation.



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15 Oct 2022, 3:11 am

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I agree, it's scary how many people in the US believe this BS.


To quote H.L. Mencken, the Sage of Baltimore, (or Bawlmer, as it’s usually pronounced by the natives, as well as some of us that grew up in Southern York County, PA): “ No one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”



ironpony
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20 Oct 2022, 12:11 am

Well the thing about this investigation of Trump is that the investigators keep coming up short on evidence.

And now they have subpoenaed Trump to testify at some senate committee hearing. But thats not a good sign in the investigation. It's like them saying, 'well we can't find any evidence, so maybe we can get you to admit to something incriminating hopefully'.



goldfish21
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20 Oct 2022, 2:40 am

ironpony wrote:
Well the thing about this investigation of Trump is that the investigators keep coming up short on evidence.

And now they have subpoenaed Trump to testify at some senate committee hearing. But thats not a good sign in the investigation. It's like them saying, 'well we can't find any evidence, so maybe we can get you to admit to something incriminating hopefully'.

Congressional committee.

Witnesses are called in all kinds of hearings, most often criminal trials, to examine them via asking them questions about whatever the case is. It’s not a fishing expedition or guessing game. They have specific questions and evidence, but under oath trumplestiltskin will be obligated to either provide truthful responses Or plead the 5th -> which in a civil proceeding (vs criminal) is ~essentially an admission of guilt & thus refusing to answer Can be used against him.

You’re acting as if it’s an out of the ordinary thing to question a suspect during a hearing or trial in order to prove their guilt or innocence.. why? :?


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ironpony
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20 Oct 2022, 4:51 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the thing about this investigation of Trump is that the investigators keep coming up short on evidence.

And now they have subpoenaed Trump to testify at some senate committee hearing. But thats not a good sign in the investigation. It's like them saying, 'well we can't find any evidence, so maybe we can get you to admit to something incriminating hopefully'.

Congressional committee.

Witnesses are called in all kinds of hearings, most often criminal trials, to examine them via asking them questions about whatever the case is. It’s not a fishing expedition or guessing game. They have specific questions and evidence, but under oath trumplestiltskin will be obligated to either provide truthful responses Or plead the 5th -> which in a civil proceeding (vs criminal) is ~essentially an admission of guilt & thus refusing to answer Can be used against him.

You’re acting as if it’s an out of the ordinary thing to question a suspect during a hearing or trial in order to prove their guilt or innocence.. why? :?


Well since a suspect can just take the fifth, it seems almost useless therefore.



goldfish21
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20 Oct 2022, 6:35 pm

ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well the thing about this investigation of Trump is that the investigators keep coming up short on evidence.

And now they have subpoenaed Trump to testify at some senate committee hearing. But thats not a good sign in the investigation. It's like them saying, 'well we can't find any evidence, so maybe we can get you to admit to something incriminating hopefully'.

Congressional committee.

Witnesses are called in all kinds of hearings, most often criminal trials, to examine them via asking them questions about whatever the case is. It’s not a fishing expedition or guessing game. They have specific questions and evidence, but under oath trumplestiltskin will be obligated to either provide truthful responses Or plead the 5th -> which in a civil proceeding (vs criminal) is ~essentially an admission of guilt & thus refusing to answer Can be used against him.

You’re acting as if it’s an out of the ordinary thing to question a suspect during a hearing or trial in order to prove their guilt or innocence.. why? :?


Well since a suspect can just take the fifth, it seems almost useless therefore.


Except it’s not useless because it’s a civil proceeding, not a criminal one. So if someone takes the 5th, they’re allowed to interpret that as basically a confession of guilt.

Chances are he will defy the subpoena and not show up at all then congress has to decide what their next move is.


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