Trump, Children sued by New York for Fraud, referred to feds

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goldfish21
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22 Sep 2022, 12:20 am

cyberdad wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Chickens coming home to roost. This is what happens when you allow a corrupt businessman to run the country. Of course he and his trustees (children) were going to commit fraud. Like leaving raw fish in front of a hungry cat.

Worst case scenario they get hauled into court they can just claim the 5th and use POTUS immunity from prosecution, It's worked so far for Trump.

He isn't potus anymore and has no executive privilege. He's a civilian.


It's now been nearly 2 years since he was deposed. It seems strange its taken so long for this to move given how corrupt he was before taking office in 2016 and the invariable likelihood he would make his tenure as POTUS as profitable as possible for his business interests. He is still an ex-POTUS and I am now sceptical whether we will see him actually jailed. His children on the other hand are another matter.


Complex crimes take time to investigate.

trump may never see jail time, but as predicted back in 2016, him and his empire are gonna get RICO’d and then his assets will be seized and sold off to pay taxes for years and years long after he dies.

Worst thing a crime family boss could have ever done was run for president and put himself and his businesses under a microscope. What an epic moron.


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goldfish21
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22 Sep 2022, 2:55 pm

Worthless wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Worthless wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
trumps pleading the fifth hundreds of times likely to hurt them in this civil suit as the assumption is that answering would hurt them/admit guilt, and I guess that’s how the law works:

https://www.salon.com/2022/09/21/art-of ... s-screwed/

Beginning of the end for this con man and crime family.. or maybe that was the day he got elected ? Either way, they’re on their way down now. 8)


Pleading the fifth is not supposed to be used against someone in legal matters. It's not like UK law in that respect.


According to that article, it Can be used in an unrelated civil suit relying on the same information. Or that’s how I interpret it. I dunno, I’m not American nor a lawyer - only know what’s in that article.


I didn't read the article as I don't have the data or time, nor frankly do I care all that much. I'm not a lawyer either, but I do have some degree of knowledge on the American legal system. I also know that salon isn't exactly a scholarly journal of law, nor a shining beacon of journalism. I do realize though, that civil cases are quite different; as well as the fact that what should be disregard or be considered irrelevant due to legal reasons, often is not in a jury trial despite what the jury instructions may be.


I just listened to some other news clip that explains the difference. In a criminal case, they can't use pleading the 5th against you.. but in a Civil case, they court isn't obligated to use it against you, but they have the option of doing it - of considering pleading the 5th as a negative; that had you answered it would have been incriminating. Interesting difference in law. I wonder if trump realized that when he plead the 5th over 400 times in a civil suit ?


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Worthless
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22 Sep 2022, 3:04 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Worthless wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Worthless wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
trumps pleading the fifth hundreds of times likely to hurt them in this civil suit as the assumption is that answering would hurt them/admit guilt, and I guess that’s how the law works:

https://www.salon.com/2022/09/21/art-of ... s-screwed/

Beginning of the end for this con man and crime family.. or maybe that was the day he got elected ? Either way, they’re on their way down now. 8)


Pleading the fifth is not supposed to be used against someone in legal matters. It's not like UK law in that respect.


According to that article, it Can be used in an unrelated civil suit relying on the same information. Or that’s how I interpret it. I dunno, I’m not American nor a lawyer - only know what’s in that article.


I didn't read the article as I don't have the data or time, nor frankly do I care all that much. I'm not a lawyer either, but I do have some degree of knowledge on the American legal system. I also know that salon isn't exactly a scholarly journal of law, nor a shining beacon of journalism. I do realize though, that civil cases are quite different; as well as the fact that what should be disregard or be considered irrelevant due to legal reasons, often is not in a jury trial despite what the jury instructions may be.


I just listened to some other news clip that explains the difference. In a criminal case, they can't use pleading the 5th against you.. but in a Civil case, they court isn't obligated to use it against you, but they have the option of doing it - of considering pleading the 5th as a negative; that had you answered it would have been incriminating. Interesting difference in law. I wonder if trump realized that when he plead the 5th over 400 times in a civil suit ?


Interesting, I did not know that it could be used against you in a civil suit. Yeah, I would have thought his lawyers would have mentioned that to him... Then again, he seems to use some pretty shady lawyers...



goldfish21
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22 Sep 2022, 3:23 pm

Worthless wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
I just listened to some other news clip that explains the difference. In a criminal case, they can't use pleading the 5th against you.. but in a Civil case, they court isn't obligated to use it against you, but they have the option of doing it - of considering pleading the 5th as a negative; that had you answered it would have been incriminating. Interesting difference in law. I wonder if trump realized that when he plead the 5th over 400 times in a civil suit ?


Interesting, I did not know that it could be used against you in a civil suit. Yeah, I would have thought his lawyers would have mentioned that to him... Then again, he seems to use some pretty shady lawyers...

:lol:

..because all of the best lawyers like to get paid for their work and trumplestiltskin has a long history of not paying his legal bills. So, he has to take the 3rd and 4th string rated help he can get.. and these lawyers are probably doing it to boost their profile in hopes a little fame by associating with the former guy. I mean, I guess there are going to be a lot of trumpists that are going to need lawyers, soooooo, even if they fail spectacularly, no one with any self respect is going to want to represent indefensible magas.. so maybe these losers' careers won't actually be over because of this - they might just be able to rake in some cash for a few years by being willing to get paid to lose. :lol:


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DW_a_mom
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22 Sep 2022, 8:06 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
"James’ office reviewed millions of documents". Wouldn't that take up their entire workload of at least couple of years?


Having done discovery, 99.9% of the stuff you pick up can be set aside immediately as irrelevant. I would assume they knew what they were looking for; there are plenty of business people who did business with the Trump organization that have been willing to blow whistles on it. He isn't exactly known as a reliable partner. A lot of people did business with him anyway because of the name recognition, but that wouldn't exactly create a loyal circle.


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22 Sep 2022, 8:09 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
I wonder if trump realized that when he plead the 5th over 400 times in a civil suit ?


He probably did know. But giving them nothing to work with is still giving them nothing to work with. If you buried bodies, you don't want to risk giving away the neighborhood you hid them in.


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DW_a_mom
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22 Sep 2022, 8:23 pm

I personally would not call the Trump company a criminal organization. It's more like he pushed the speed limit so far that people started getting uncomfortable going for a drive with him (not that he actually drives as far as I know; its an analogy). As someone who works with a LOT of businesses, there is a certain amount of "stretching" that seems to be generally expected as part of staying competitive. You get used to it. But every so often you find yourself working with someone whose stretching gets so far out of the norm you feel slimy trying to work with them, and you know you have to break contact for sanity and self-preservation. It's easy to lose sight of boundaries when stretching them is the norm. You have to have people around you that tell you "no," and you have to listen to them. I have pulled away from many clients over the years; its not a fun or easy thing to do, but you have to watch those lines or you lose your soul. Because stretching really is the norm.

A civil suit makes sense. Misleading. Deceiving. Pushing to the point of creating financial harm to someone else. Negligence. Reckless disregard. But not necessarily doing things that can be shown to break a specified statute beyond a reasonable doubt.


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kraftiekortie
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22 Sep 2022, 8:28 pm

Yes, this is a civil matter.

But Trump is being investigated for criminal matters, too---in multiple states and federally.

And....he criminally sought to overturn the election of Joe Biden as president.



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22 Sep 2022, 9:06 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, this is a civil matter.

But Trump is being investigated for criminal matters, too---in multiple states and federally.

And....he criminally sought to overturn the election of Joe Biden as president.



That last one is the most serious by far. He tried to literally destroy our representative democracy by force. The peaceful transfer of power is at the heart of our republic. Without a peaceful transfer of power, elections mean nothing and you end up with war and/or an authorization regime. Our republic is far from guaranteed and can fall apart easily if not up held. I find it ironic that republicans claim to care about the construction while supporting the unconstitutional overthrowing of our republic.

There is no parallel in American history to what he did. Even the civil war does not compare as they simply tried to seceded and form their own independent confederation, not to overthrow the US government.



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22 Sep 2022, 9:07 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, this is a civil matter.

But Trump is being investigated for criminal matters, too---in multiple states and federally.

And....he criminally sought to overturn the election of Joe Biden as president.


Trump, specifically, as an individual for acts connected to his holding of and desire to continue to hold office.

That doesn't suddenly make his entire business organization a criminal one.


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goldfish21
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22 Sep 2022, 10:26 pm

trump’s ex lawyer of 10 years, Michael Cohen, refers to trump’s biz as a criminal organization - because he Knows that it is.


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cyberdad
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22 Sep 2022, 10:43 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
trump’s ex lawyer of 10 years, Michael Cohen, refers to trump’s biz as a criminal organization - because he Knows that it is.


^^^ this. He's a street hustler like his father.



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22 Sep 2022, 10:55 pm

cyberdad wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
trump’s ex lawyer of 10 years, Michael Cohen, refers to trump’s biz as a criminal organization - because he Knows that it is.


^^^ this. He's a street hustler like his father.


Hay now, no need to insult street hustlers. At the end of the day, they are just trying to survive and get enough to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. trump doesn't have the excuse of needing to do whatever it takes to survive. He is allegedly a billionaire. Also, the scale of it and the level of criminality and the seriousness of it.

At the end of the day, who cares if the watches are fake, the food/drinks were bought with EBT or the cigarettes are from out of state? It pales in comparison to what trump does.



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22 Sep 2022, 11:39 pm

Trump does legitimate business, certainly.

But…he’s pretty shady in lots of ways, even amid the legitimate veneer.



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22 Sep 2022, 11:50 pm

Worthless wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
trump’s ex lawyer of 10 years, Michael Cohen, refers to trump’s biz as a criminal organization - because he Knows that it is.


^^^ this. He's a street hustler like his father.


Hay now, no need to insult street hustlers. At the end of the day, they are just trying to survive and get enough to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. trump doesn't have the excuse of needing to do whatever it takes to survive. He is allegedly a billionaire. Also, the scale of it and the level of criminality and the seriousness of it.

At the end of the day, who cares if the watches are fake, the food/drinks were bought with EBT or the cigarettes are from out of state? It pales in comparison to what trump does.


Yeah he just hustles on a bigger scale



goldfish21
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23 Sep 2022, 12:12 am

According to Michael Cohen, $250M is just the tip of the iceberg. In some
interview he said he figures once they discover the extent of the financial crimes that the fine/restitution or whatever it’s called to NY state will be more like $750M.


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