Virginia Students walkout - Trans policies

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goldfish21
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04 Oct 2022, 1:28 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
I didn't make any of that up. All I did was google "how many genders are there?" Along with "how many preferred gender pronouns are there?", or "list of preferred gender pronouns".

Just because someone says something on the Internet (and you found it via Google) doesn't mean it's representative of the real world.

Now that singular "they" has come to be accepted in style guides, hardly anyone uses any other pronoun to refer to a person of either nonbinary or unknown gender.

Based on what you're saying it's obvious to me that I've looked into this more extensively than you have. For instance Facebook has 58 gender options.

There are many organizations that can help people sort out their thoughts and feelings on these things.


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Last edited by Cornflake on 04 Oct 2022, 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.: Removed a personal poke

The_Walrus
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04 Oct 2022, 4:53 pm

Facebook has 58 gender options, but most of them are different words for the same thing.

Here are the four options which mean "cis man":

Quote:
Cis male, cis man, cisgender male, cisgender man

There are then these eleven options for "trans woman":
Quote:
Male to female, MTF, trans female, trans* female, trans woman, trans* woman, transfeminine, transgender female, transgender woman, transsexual female, transsexual woman

(I trust the reader to extrapolate to the options for "cis woman" and "trans man")
That's 30 of the "58", just for four options.
There are then ten more options which mark cis/trans without marking man/woman:
Quote:
Cis, cisgender, trans, trans*, trans person, trans* person, transgender, transgender person, transsexual, transsexual person

These aren't "different genders", they're different ways of describing a gender. It's the equivalent of "autism", "autistic", "Autism Spectrum Disorder", "ASD", "person with autism", "on the spectrum", and so forth. You wouldn't say that someone who says they are autistic and someone who says they are on the spectrum have different conditions.

So that's 40 out of the 58 out the way and we haven't advanced beyond cis/trans man/woman.

There are then a number of markers for "non-binary" in a generic sense:
Quote:
Androgyne, androgynous, gender non-conforming, non-binary, gender variant, genderqueer, other

There's then a number that seem to me to be "multiple genders".
Quote:
Bigender, gender fluid, pangender

Then there's a number which mean "no gender":
Quote:
Agender, neither, neutrois

One Native American identity:
Quote:
Two-Spirit

One that is a sex:
Quote:
Intersex

And one which seems to be "I don't know":
Quote:
Gender questioning

Is there a slight variation between some of those terms? Probably. "Androgynous" means something different to "genderqueer". But I think "58 genders" insinuates that Facebook is doing something it isn't. There is no remotely mainstream drive to teach about xenogenders, or any attempt to differentiate between neopronouns for anything other than aesthetics (again, like ASD/autism/autistic spectrum condition/PDD-NOS/whatever). The Facebook list, and the only things anyone will ever encounter unless they active look for them, is cis/trans man/woman, non-binary, agender, multigender, intersex, and then Two Spirit is the only specific identity that doesn't fit within those terms. Realistically that's at most nine genders, eight of which are easy to understand if you're familiar with the binary model.

Of course in reality there are as many genders as there are people. But when it comes to categorising gender, you can capture almost everyone with a small number of categories that only require reference to two genders.

Put it this way. Imagine someone hands you a box and says all items in the box are either red or violet. You look in the box, and 90% of items are red or violet. But some are both red and violet. Some are green, which is between red and violet. Some are completely transparent and lack any colour at all. And in fact, when you look closely, some of the red things are scarlet, some are crimson, some are maroon, some are magenta, some are pink. Some of the violet things could be called mauve or purple or indigo. What's your response? "That's too many colours, it doesn't seem realistic"?



Matrix Glitch
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04 Oct 2022, 8:45 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Facebook has 58 gender options, but most of them are different words for the same thing.

Here are the four options which mean "cis man":
Quote:
Cis male, cis man, cisgender male, cisgender man

There are then these eleven options for "trans woman":
Quote:
Male to female, MTF, trans female, trans* female, trans woman, trans* woman, transfeminine, transgender female, transgender woman, transsexual female, transsexual woman

(I trust the reader to extrapolate to the options for "cis woman" and "trans man")
That's 30 of the "58", just for four options.
There are then ten more options which mark cis/trans without marking man/woman:
Quote:
Cis, cisgender, trans, trans*, trans person, trans* person, transgender, transgender person, transsexual, transsexual person

These aren't "different genders", they're different ways of describing a gender. It's the equivalent of "autism", "autistic", "Autism Spectrum Disorder", "ASD", "person with autism", "on the spectrum", and so forth. You wouldn't say that someone who says they are autistic and someone who says they are on the spectrum have different conditions.

So that's 40 out of the 58 out the way and we haven't advanced beyond cis/trans man/woman.

There are then a number of markers for "non-binary" in a generic sense:
Quote:
Androgyne, androgynous, gender non-conforming, non-binary, gender variant, genderqueer, other

There's then a number that seem to me to be "multiple genders".
Quote:
Bigender, gender fluid, pangender

Then there's a number which mean "no gender":
Quote:
Agender, neither, neutrois

One Native American identity:
Quote:
Two-Spirit

One that is a sex:
Quote:
Intersex

And one which seems to be "I don't know":
Quote:
Gender questioning

Is there a slight variation between some of those terms? Probably. "Androgynous" means something different to "genderqueer". But I think "58 genders" insinuates that Facebook is doing something it isn't. There is no remotely mainstream drive to teach about xenogenders, or any attempt to differentiate between neopronouns for anything other than aesthetics (again, like ASD/autism/autistic spectrum condition/PDD-NOS/whatever). The Facebook list, and the only things anyone will ever encounter unless they active look for them, is cis/trans man/woman, non-binary, agender, multigender, intersex, and then Two Spirit is the only specific identity that doesn't fit within those terms. Realistically that's at most nine genders, eight of which are easy to understand if you're familiar with the binary model.

Of course in reality there are as many genders as there are people. But when it comes to categorising gender, you can capture almost everyone with a small number of categories that only require reference to two genders.

Put it this way. Imagine someone hands you a box and says all items in the box are either red or violet. You look in the box, and 90% of items are red or violet. But some are both red and violet. Some are green, which is between red and violet. Some are completely transparent and lack any colour at all. And in fact, when you look closely, some of the red things are scarlet, some are crimson, some are maroon, some are magenta, some are pink. Some of the violet things could be called mauve or purple or indigo. What's your response? "That's too many colours, it doesn't seem realistic"?

In the case of Facebook, it just occurred to me at the time to look up the number of gender selections it had. But I know from poking around that it's gotten pretty convoluted, which I think is mainly a woke thing. It's like back in the 90s when they kept coming up with different terms for black people. Like each month a new politically correct term replaced the last one, and it got to the point where people got tongue tied not knowing what they were supposed to say and how they were supposed to say it.



goldfish21
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04 Oct 2022, 9:35 pm

Mmmhmm; respecting other people is a 'woke thing.' :roll:


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