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goldfish21
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29 Sep 2022, 11:42 am


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ironpony
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29 Sep 2022, 11:01 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
ironpony wrote:
They are a much bigger problem than Trump himself.


Who is?

trump's legion of red hatted cult members - his supporters.

ironpony has a valid point.. trump himself isn't going to go take an ar-15 to an FBI field office, or storm the capitol building and try to hang mike pence, or set pipe bombs around DC, or mail bombs to democratic lawmakers etc etc - he's a great big wuss. It's his cult loyal followers that are dangerous and there's no one more culty than the q ppl.

BUT, even though it's foot soldiers who pull triggers in hand to hand combat.. they still have a commander that winds them up and sets them loose. trumplestiltskin would still be culpable.


But I never see Trumpt actually commanding pipe bombs are AR-15 usage in public places though. So it seems like his followers are EXCEEDING his orders in a sense, and I don't think the commander should be held mostly responsible, if the followers are choosing to exceed the orders. If Trump is a commander, than he has lost the command of his army, so to speak, but people are still giving the ones who are exceeding orders, the Nuremberg defense.


trump intentionally doesn’t give explicit instructions on the crimes he wants people to commit for him. He’s very skilled with his words and speaks like a mafia boss being recorded by the FBI in order to have plausible deniability that he didn’t give ppl instructions to carry something out, yet what he actually wants done gets communicated by his tone of voice and body language.

That’s why you don’t see examples of him giving specific direct commands. He’s very careful not to sound like he’s guilty.


But if he doesn't actually give the orders, I don't think it counts as him actually giving him. If a person doesn't actually do it, than his accusers cannot say he was clever NOT to do it but actually did. I feel it doesn't count then if he is not actually doing it.



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30 Sep 2022, 2:02 am

ironpony wrote:
Well if they are just theories, than there is no proof they exist, so it's nothing to worry about therefore. It's like how I have a friend who fully believes the moonlanding wasn't real. But if he can't prove it, then it's just a theory, and now cares?


On the contrary. The MAGA and QAnon crowd takes to heart everything Trump says, and have already demonstrated how they'll use violence because of those beliefs.


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goldfish21
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30 Sep 2022, 5:19 am

ironpony wrote:
But if he doesn't actually give the orders, I don't think it counts as him actually giving him. If a person doesn't actually do it, than his accusers cannot say he was clever NOT to do it but actually did. I feel it doesn't count then if he is not actually doing it.

Some things he did say out loud directly.. like when he told the proud boys to stand back and stand by (wait for his command) or when he told the people at his J6 rally to march to the capitol and fight like hell.

It's unknown if he sent any text/message communications, but chances are it was roger stone and others who did that vs. trump himself. Apparently trump doesn't use email - because he avoids paper trails of communications so people can't prove what he said to who, when.

More hearings + potential trials will get to the bottom of what he did and didn't say & do.


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kraftiekortie
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30 Sep 2022, 5:43 am

Just because a person didn’t murder somebody — doesn’t mean the person can’t be charged with murder if he/she inspired, or actually commissioned, the murderer to do the deed.

Trump didn’t personally storm the Capitol, obviously—but he certainly inspired others to do so. He is fully culpable.

This is no “Nuremberg” defense here. We’re not under a Nazi, totalitarian regime.



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30 Sep 2022, 6:14 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

This is no “Nuremberg” defense here. We’re not under a Nazi, totalitarian regime.


Not yet, give it a few more years and we'll see just how bad things are going to get. As they say "People who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

Of course even those who actually study history and try to warn the masses when the red flags are going up are often doomed too. Because they always get ignored.

How many people were laughed at a few years ago for panicking over Donald Trump becoming president because many treated his presidency like it was a big joke? Now look at where we are. His influence over the US government is probably as bad if not greater than Joseph McCarthy back in the 1950's.



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30 Sep 2022, 8:33 am

I don’t ignore history.

I was pointing out that there’s no excuse for Trump followers to wreak havoc. Just like Trump, they are fully culpable for their actions. They can’t use Trump as an excuse.



cyberdad
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30 Sep 2022, 9:14 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I was pointing out that there’s no excuse for Trump followers to wreak havoc. Just like Trump, they are fully culpable for their actions. They can’t use Trump as an excuse.


The right wing pernicious propaganda podcasters consistently turn this around and point fingers at the BLM protests breaking a couple of windows as if that justifies the attempted MAGA lynchings on Jan 6.



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30 Sep 2022, 9:40 pm

We need DeSantis to take his place, pronto.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 1:46 am

Asks some guy named Thom Hartmann. (trump’s biggest crime according to Thom Hartmann)

https://fb.watch/fTCw-zUdRK/

Interesting. Maybe this is his biggest crime ? I dunno how you measure and compare them. But maybe this one ranks up there as treasonous ?? And that’s why this guy says that.

Also, he raises a good point about there being Zilch in the news about this. Makes me wonder if it’s being investigated quietly, or if due to how things are structured in this part of the government that there’s sweet f all anyone can do to force a different result/prevent blocking investigations and it simply is what it is. I have no idea.. but even if there’s no simple realistic way to break a deadlock vote on investigations, you’d think this particular criming would at least get some press.. odd it hasn’t.


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01 Oct 2022, 7:52 am

Why don't we have one big "Goldfish21's Trump Hysteria" thread? You can post in there all day, much like I contain myself in my vaccine skepticism thread.


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goldfish21
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01 Oct 2022, 8:09 am

Mikah wrote:
Why don't we have one big "Goldfish21's Trump Hysteria" thread? You can post in there all day, much like I contain myself in my vaccine skepticism thread.

Because these are all different topics ? The former guy is involved in several very different investigations and legal proceedings that have nothing to do with one another. Fraud, tax evasion, rape, seditious conspiracy, theft of classified documents etc. That's what happens when someone goes on such a massive crime spree and then gets caught for one thing and then the next and the next and it'd be next to impossible to have any sort of discussion thread about his many different crimes have any sort of discussion flow when there are so many vastly different topics with regular news updates.

Hysteria? lol no. Interest in what's going on with the guy that's still trying to destroy American democracy? Yeah, I'd buy that.

As I've said many times, I'd prefer he just skipped go and didn't collect $200 and went straight to jail right now. Then there wouldn't be any more trump train wrecks to not look away from and I'd have a much easier time focusing my attention on anything else.


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01 Oct 2022, 10:31 am

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I was pointing out that there’s no excuse for Trump followers to wreak havoc. Just like Trump, they are fully culpable for their actions. They can’t use Trump as an excuse.


The right wing pernicious propaganda podcasters consistently turn this around and point fingers at the BLM protests breaking a couple of windows as if that justifies the attempted MAGA lynchings on Jan 6.

The BLM associated riots way way more then a few broken windows.
This does not excuse 1/6 and the ongoing attempted coup.

The MAGA’s, the neo nazis etc is no excuse for the seemingly reflexive never ending minimizing, dismissing, and gaslighting of the 2020 horrors.

America is in peril because its foundations are under attack by both sides at the same time. One side is worse. All the arguing over who that is does is distract us.


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cyberdad
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01 Oct 2022, 6:45 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The MAGA’s, the neo nazis etc is no excuse for the seemingly reflexive never ending minimizing, dismissing, and gaslighting of the 2020 horrors..


But isn't that been their modus operandi since Jan 6? continuously minimise and dismiss the impact of the Jan 6 capitol riots and gaslight the left whenever the story is reported?



kraftiekortie
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01 Oct 2022, 8:19 pm

There’s too much radicalism on both sides…..



cyberdad
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01 Oct 2022, 9:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There’s too much radicalism on both sides…..


The left doesn't follow a dangerous cult