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Matrix Glitch
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09 Oct 2022, 3:55 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Matrix Glitch wrote:
Not liking Biden doesn't automatically make someone pro-trump. That's another game that's being played; if you're not on Biden and the democrats side, you must be one of those evil Trump worshiping MAGAs.


Dude...youre the one who insisted that we all play that game!

Biden himself divided up the GOP into the old kind (who believe in democracy), and the new MAGA kind 'who are threat to democracy'.

And youre the one who twisted his words and got all offended that Biden said that YOU are a threat to democracy implying that you, and ALL GOPers, are all one and the same, and you are all MAGA types. :lol:

But then you always change your story and say that you "dont support Trump".

But then you get all upset when you see most American bash Trump. So upset that you have the rest of us afraid to mention Trump's name for fear that it will upset you. :lol:

So you walk and quack like a Trump supporter, but ...are not one. If you say so. :)

But also SOME/MANY/MOST folks who harp on Hunter do so because they ARE MAGA Trump apologists. Do so in a desperate attempt to equate Hunter's laptop with the MarALago fiasco. Trouble is that the two cases are not the same. Hunter cooperated, and gave up his laptop to the Feds. Trump is not cooperating.

Youre "being binary" yourself by claiming that NO one who ever mentions Hunter is pro Trump.

Yet another personal tirade that's all wrong as usual.



MaxE
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09 Oct 2022, 4:13 pm

Matrix Glitch wrote:
Yet another personal tirade that's all wrong as usual.

Really pwned him, eh?


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DW_a_mom
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09 Oct 2022, 5:40 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Uh oh, I thought we were all assured this stuff was entirely Russian disinformation:


Not actually what I, at least, ever said. My point has been that there has never been a political reason to investigate him with special committees et al, or for the public at large to obsess over him, given that, as a regular citizen, and not part of his father's administration, the normal channels of justice would do just fine. If there was any "there," actually there.

My other point has been that no one should be considered responsible for the actions of family members, especially ones they have never made a part of their administration.

I also feel strongly that relatives who don't hold office themselves should retain their right to privacy, and it's not really any of our business. I can't imagine having my life picked apart and exposed because someone related to me choose to hold public office.


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DW_a_mom
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09 Oct 2022, 5:55 pm

Dox47 wrote:

I'm interested in Hunter Biden due to the suppression of stories about him during the 2020 election, which we now know was the product of both government pressure and partisanship in the media, along with the social media companies essentially not wanting to get blamed for another Trump victory; the fact that Joe Biden may be implicated in his corruption ("10% for the big guy") is just gravy, and demolishes your "Hunter Biden isn't on the ballot!" dodge.



One statement by the son that has not been verified is not proof of anything. Certainly not something that could have or would have changed an election, IMHO.

If we're holding our noses in most elections already - as we usually are - the tangential stuff doesn't matter. A comment by a relative (not the candidate themselves) in an email from a hard drive copy that no longer can be verified in its entirety is definitely tangential.

All that said, you are entitled to your fun at his expense. As much as I find the whole concept of digging into a private citizen relative inappropriate, I'm aware I'm on the fringe. I do see the irony in his situation, and I also feel you've given your reasons often enough.


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Dox47
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10 Oct 2022, 12:58 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
One statement by the son that has not been verified is not proof of anything. Certainly not something that could have or would have changed an election, IMHO.


Well, in order to determine if there's anything to that statement, there would have to be an investigation, which we're not going to get unless the GOP takes back congress, and you can't really say if Joe Biden being implicated in a corruption scandal in 2020 would have changed things, which is convenient for you seeing as how you got the result you wanted out of it. Deep down, I think you don't want to know, because you do know that even if he were corrupt you'd have voted for him anyway, and that's uncomfortably close to your own criticisms of Trump voters, knowingly pulling the lever for the bad guy cause you think the other guy is worse.

Also, do we even need to do the counterfactual where Don Jr is caught up in some personal drama with even the slightest connection to his father, and whether the media would cover it vs cover it up?


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DW_a_mom
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10 Oct 2022, 2:55 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
One statement by the son that has not been verified is not proof of anything. Certainly not something that could have or would have changed an election, IMHO.


Well, in order to determine if there's anything to that statement, there would have to be an investigation, which we're not going to get unless the GOP takes back congress, and you can't really say if Joe Biden being implicated in a corruption scandal in 2020 would have changed things, which is convenient for you seeing as how you got the result you wanted out of it. Deep down, I think you don't want to know, because you do know that even if he were corrupt you'd have voted for him anyway, and that's uncomfortably close to your own criticisms of Trump voters, knowingly pulling the lever for the bad guy cause you think the other guy is worse.

Also, do we even need to do the counterfactual where Don Jr is caught up in some personal drama with even the slightest connection to his father, and whether the media would cover it vs cover it up?


I think we both understand that threats and corruption are relative so, yes, I would have voted for him anyway. On a scale next to Trump, it would still be chump change.

But, no, I don't believe it for Biden Sr. Doesn't fit the pattern and reputation. Lying and puffery, however, fits Hunter's. If we paid to have investigations into every stolen maybe-email that said something worrisome, we wouldn't have money left for actual government. Plus, don't forget that Biden Sr. HAS made his tax returns public, so if he was getting 10%, we'd have seen it. That's taxable income. Maybe as a campaign donation? Disclosures exist there, too - Democrats aren't the ones trying to increase the avenues for dark money, although they do use the loopholes that exist because, well, they exist so it would be foolish not to.

Don Jr. has consistently and aggressively chosen to put his face, name and opinions out there as part of his father's political umbrella so he made himself fair game under my standards. Tiffany and Baron have not and I won't touch them.


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Dox47
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10 Oct 2022, 3:08 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Don Jr. has consistently and aggressively chosen to put his face, name and opinions out there as part of his father's political umbrella so he made himself fair game under my standards. Tiffany and Baron have not and I won't touch them.


That was literally Hunter's entire career path, and yet you're making noises as if he's the victim here. Honestly, I think you're lying to yourself, and you know it, your defensiveness and excuse making is behavior I associate with people who are angry that they're wrong and know they're wrong, but won't change their opinions for whatever reason.


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10 Oct 2022, 3:42 am

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Don Jr. has consistently and aggressively chosen to put his face, name and opinions out there as part of his father's political umbrella so he made himself fair game under my standards. Tiffany and Baron have not and I won't touch them.


That was literally Hunter's entire career path, and yet you're making noises as if he's the victim here. Honestly, I think you're lying to yourself, and you know it, your defensiveness and excuse making is behavior I associate with people who are angry that they're wrong and know they're wrong, but won't change their opinions for whatever reason.


Not feeling what you're seeing in my tone but if Hunter has been putting himself out there like Don Jr has it wasn't crossing my radar. Maybe I haven't paid enough attention to Biden and his family? They haven't generally been as entertaining as Trump and his so that is definitely possible. I've been aware of Trump family shenanigans since the 1980's (I actually miss the days we could pay attention to the Trump's for celebrity entertainment and not worry what it meant for our government).

(I'm also only half paying attention right now and I know you hate it when I post in that mind frame .. sorry, it's just something I need to do during deadlines to ease stress)


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stratozyck
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13 Oct 2022, 8:03 pm

Dox47 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Don Jr. has consistently and aggressively chosen to put his face, name and opinions out there as part of his father's political umbrella so he made himself fair game under my standards. Tiffany and Baron have not and I won't touch them.


That was literally Hunter's entire career path, and yet you're making noises as if he's the victim here. Honestly, I think you're lying to yourself, and you know it, your defensiveness and excuse making is behavior I associate with people who are angry that they're wrong and know they're wrong, but won't change their opinions for whatever reason.


More right wing noise. Trump put his daughter and son in law in the administration.

What post does Hunter Biden hold in the administration?

I'd bet good money a significant number of gun owning MAGA types have smoked pot in the 30 days prior to buying a gun.

Hypocrites. I've come to expect that.

When the GOP was going nuts over a BJ in the oval office their guy (Dennis Hastert) was doing boys.

I encourage you to google "Gary Heart Monkey Business" to see the true dark nature of the GOP hit squad.



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13 Oct 2022, 8:36 pm

Whatever Hunter Biden is charged with ( which won't be nearly enough ), you can bet that 'ole dippity do daddy O was in on and had knowledge of it. JB might not know his own a** from a hole in the ground anymore, but he's only ever been corrupt. That's a must to be an elected democrat.


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14 Oct 2022, 5:03 am

stratozyck wrote:
More right wing noise. Trump put his daughter and son in law in the administration.


Whataboutism isn't an argument, it's a distraction.


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14 Oct 2022, 5:06 am

The Consequences That Hunter Biden Could Face for Violating Arbitrary Gun Laws Should Give His Father Pause

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n an interview with CNN's Jake Tapper yesterday, President Joe Biden conceded that his son Hunter lied on a government form when he purchased a handgun in October 2018—a federal felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The younger Biden was a crack cocaine user at the time, as recounted in his 2021 memoir Beautiful Things. Yet he answered no to this question on ATF Form 4473: "Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?"

Last week, The Washington Post reported that federal agents believe they have enough evidence to charge Hunter Biden with making that false statement. Although the Post did not mention it, receiving and possessing the gun he bought was also a felony, which at the time likewise was punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which President Biden signed into law in June, raised the maximum penalty for that offense to 15 years.

Biden presumably does not think his son should go to prison for lying about his personal habits or for violating a federal law that prohibited him from owning a gun. Neither do I. But if that result would be unjust, why does Biden enthusiastically support the laws that allow it?

Under those laws, someone in Hunter Biden's position, if convicted, can be sent to federal prison for years or decades. Furthermore, such a conviction would forever bar him from possessing firearms, whether or not he continued using illegal drugs. If he were caught with a gun after being convicted of a felony, he could be prosecuted again, in which case he would now face up to 15 years in prison. And he would carry all the other lifelong burdens of a felony record.

In the CNN interview, Biden emphasized that his son had "overcome" his drug problems and "established a new life," which a felony conviction obviously would disrupt. "I have great confidence in my son," Biden said. "I love him, and he's on the straight and narrow, and he has been for a couple of years now. And I'm just so proud of him."

You might think that Hunter Biden's violation of federal gun laws, which has been public knowledge for at least six months, would have given his father pause regarding the draconian penalties for such offenses. To the contrary, the president doubled down on that policy by signing the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and his administration is actively defending the ban that his son violated.

The federal prohibition of gun possession by unlawful users of controlled substances also applies to cannabis consumers, even if they live in states that allow medical or recreational use of marijuana. Form 4473, which has to be completed by anyone who buys a gun from a federally licensed dealer, emphasizes that point by warning that "the use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside."

Last April, a month after Politico described a bizarre 2018 incident involving the .38-caliber revolver that Hunter Biden illegally owned, Florida Commissioner of Agriculture and Consumer Services Nikki Fried, a Democrat, sued the Biden administration, arguing that the federal ban on firearm possession by medical marijuana users violates the Second Amendment. The Justice Department responded by arguing that the ban is "consistent with this Nation's historical tradition of firearm regulation"—the constitutional test established by the Supreme Court's June 23 decision in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen.

"In England and in America from the colonial era through the 19th century," the Justice Department noted, "governments regularly disarmed a variety of groups deemed dangerous." For instance, "England disarmed Catholics in the 17th and 18th centuries," and "many American colonies forbade providing Indians with firearms." The government's lawyers also mentioned the long history of banning firearm possession by people convicted of certain crimes and state gun laws aimed at "alcoholics" or "intoxicated" individuals. They argued that marijuana's effects on "judgment, cognition, and physical coordination" make cannabis consumption inconsistent with responsible gun ownership.

When the Justice Department filed its motion to dismiss Fried's lawsuit, Biden had already undermined its argument by saying that marijuana use should not be treated as a crime. He had also questioned marijuana's status as a Schedule I substance, a category supposedly reserved for drugs with a high potential for abuse that have no accepted medical applications and cannot be used safely even under a doctor's supervision.

Last week, Biden confirmed both of those positions. He issued a mass pardon for people convicted of simple marijuana possession under the Controlled Substances Act or the District of Columbia Code. And although Biden still has not come around to supporting the repeal of federal pot prohibition, he said "it makes no sense" to treat marijuana as a Schedule I drug. Accordingly, he instructed Secretary of Health and Human Services Xavier Becerra and Attorney General Merrick Garland to "initiate the process of reviewing how marijuana is scheduled under federal law." Yet the Biden administration still maintains that it's appropriate to treat cannabis consumers who own guns as felons.

That position is hard to reconcile with what Biden has said about "our failed approach to marijuana." And the president's more general support for threatening gun-owning drug users with stiff prison terms is hard to reconcile with the more compassionate approach he surely would favor if his son were convicted of knowingly making a false statement "in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm."

David Weiss, the U.S. attorney for Delaware, has not yet decided whether to charge Hunter Biden with that crime, which is rarely prosecuted. "In the 2019 fiscal year, when Hunter Biden purchased his gun, federal prosecutors received 478 referrals for lying on Form 4473—and filed just 298 cases," the Post reports. The paper compares those numbers to the "27 million background checks" conducted during that period, which is somewhat misleading. A more relevant question is how often a referral results in charges, which according to the Post happened 62 percent of the time in FY 2019.

There are many cases, however, where a false statement is discovered but does not lead to a criminal referral. A 2004 report from the Justice Department's inspector general noted that gun buyers who failed background checks before completing their purchases were almost never prosecuted. The FBI blocked 122,000 gun sales in 2002 and 2003, which represented 0.7 percent of background checks. Only 154 of the would-be gun owners—0.1 percent—were prosecuted.

According to a 2016 report from the same office, prosecution rates were even lower in subsequent years. "These cases lack 'jury appeal' for various reasons," the 2004 report noted. One of those reasons: "The factors prohibiting someone from possessing a firearm may have been nonviolent or committed many years ago."

Even when prohibited persons were allowed to buy guns because the background check was not completed within three business days, recovering those firearms was not a high priority for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF). The 2004 report noted that there were often delays in retrieving weapons, partly because "ATF special agents did not consider most of the prohibited persons who had obtained guns to be dangerous and therefore did not consider it a priority to retrieve the firearm promptly."

Think about the implications of that observation. Congress has declared that letting certain classes of people own guns poses an intolerable threat to public safety. That threat supposedly is grave enough to justify felony charges and prison terms. Yet the agency charged with enforcing that edict "did not consider most of the prohibited persons who had obtained guns to be dangerous."

Those prohibited persons include illegal drug users like Hunter Biden or medical marijuana patients in Florida; anyone convicted of a crime punishable by more than a year of incarceration, whether or not the offense involved violence and regardless of how long ago it was committed; anyone with a history of court-ordered psychiatric treatment, whether or not he was deemed a threat to others and regardless of how much time has elapsed; and anyone living in the United States without the government's permission. It is no wonder that the ATF's judgment of a gun buyer's dangerousness frequently differs from the one embodied in federal law.

In addition to all the people who are caught lying on Form 4473, there are surely many cases where such lies go undetected, as initially happened with Hunter Biden. Unlike a criminal or psychiatric record, illegal drug use that does not result in an arrest—i.e., nearly all illegal drug use—would not turn up in a background check.

The fact that such gun laws are rarely enforced does not make them less unjust. To the contrary, haphazard enforcement means that a few people will face severe consequences for conduct that many others engage in with impunity. Millions of Americans are notionally forbidden to buy or possess guns, often for reasons that have nothing to do with violent tendencies. Only a tiny percentage of them will ever be prosecuted for daring to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

Hunter Biden might be one of them. If so, he will not deserve a prison sentence for actions that violated no one's rights. But the same is true of many other defendants who run afoul of the arbitrary gun restrictions that his father supports.


Nailed it. Biden is almost too mediocre to really hate, almost.


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