Missing and murdered Australian Indigenous women & children

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kraftiekortie
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25 Oct 2022, 9:04 am

Frequently, in the United States, children who are being mistreated by their parents are sent to live with their grandparents.

It's actually fairly common for grandparents to "raise" both the parents of children, and the children themselves.



magz
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25 Oct 2022, 9:06 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Frequently, in the United States, children who are being mistreated by their parents are sent to live with their grandparents.

It's actually fairly common for grandparents to "raise" both the parents of children, and the children themselves.

I believe such cases would easily defend themselves against accusations of "stealing" children.


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Pepe
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26 Oct 2022, 4:58 am

magz wrote:
Being "tough on crime" also does not help with actual social problems, it usually makes them worse.


There aren't enough safe-houses/women-shelters available.
Greater recognition/acceptance of the problem will increase the amount.
It isn't all about punishment.


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Pepe
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26 Oct 2022, 5:08 am

magz wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
A previous administration under prime minister John Howard tried a military style intervention in remote communities (ostensibly for the pretext women and children) in the northern territory that failed miserably.
How (un)surprising...


You shouldn't automatically believe everything that is said.
The first thing I would enquire about is what is meant by the term "military-style intervention".

Keep in mind, I am not defending the man.
I detest him.
He was an elitist and used people as political pawns.

But regardless, I am not sure you can categorise the response as "militaristic".
"Paternalistic" may be more accurate.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Pepe
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26 Oct 2022, 5:44 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You seem to be missing the point.
The problem was "swept under the carpet", and the victims were silenced by their own paternalistic communities.
It's entirely possible that traditional patriarchy adds to it - but sweeping internal abuse under the carpet is exactly what people do when they don't trust the outside legal systems. And this is exactly what genocide survivors experience.



Are you suggesting Australia had a policy of genocide?
There may have been evidence of this in Tasmania, but it wasn't across all of Australia.

In the previous thread where I was so badly misrepresented, there was a discussion by indigenous women who explained they were intimidated overwhelmingly through retribution by their own community if they spoke up. Women needed to know their place and accept the patriarchy they were born into.

This denial of cultural responsibility is a major contributing factor to the problem that is still seen today.
But, as with most things, it is complicated, and there is no one element that has to be addressed, agreed.

The only reason I know this is because aboriginal women mentioned it (via videos/articles) when I researched.
"The Truth is the Truth no matter where it may lead."
Killing the messenger (me) may derive some emotional relief, but it is not logically valid. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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26 Oct 2022, 5:49 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Frequently, in the United States, children who are being mistreated by their parents are sent to live with their grandparents.

It's actually fairly common for grandparents to "raise" both the parents of children, and the children themselves.


This is done in Australia, also.
But it wasn't/isn't just the grandparents who were/are used as foster parents.
Wherever possible, suitable relatives were found.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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26 Oct 2022, 6:04 am

magz wrote:
Mind it, indigenous Australians and Americans are survivors of genocides. Deep, intense distrust is an obvious trait of genocide survivors.


So you do think there was an official policy of genocide in Australia?
Could you provide a link to where you found this?
My reliable sources say differently.

When Australia was invaded/settled by the British, it was made clear that the aboriginal community was to be treated with respect.
Obviously, this was not completely adhered to.
But at least in some situations, Caucasians who murdered aboriginal people were executed for their crimes.
There was no official overt or covert policy of genocide that I know of.
If you have evidence of this, could you present it?

Keep in mind:
I am not servicing a political narrative.
My focus is on The Truth wherever it may lay.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


magz
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26 Oct 2022, 8:13 am

Why do you believe it had to be official or it wouldn't count?
The point is not what documents say but what communities actually experienced. They experienced near-extinction after colonizers came. That alone is enough to give distrust really deep roots.

The effect would hold even if everyone involved always had had best intentions (i.e. missionaries really often have best intentions but the outcome of their activities can be, to say the least, problematic).


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cyberdad
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26 Oct 2022, 8:15 am

I think aboriginal politicians like Jacinta Price are offering a different narrative that is realistic in that it focuses on addressing gaps through cooperative engagement and less on antagonism. I think African Americans could learn from this as well.

But as I mentioned in another thread, aboriginal people need to work within their own communities drawing on their own strengths and resilience to not be afraid to confront barriers. This will also resolve the domestic violence issue.



magz
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26 Oct 2022, 8:26 am

Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Being "tough on crime" also does not help with actual social problems, it usually makes them worse.


There aren't enough safe-houses/women-shelters available.
Greater recognition/acceptance of the problem will increase the amount.
It isn't all about punishment.

Then go, start an NGO and run women shelters in the outback.
I bet you're not that kind of a person but how about supporting an existing NGO running shelters in the outback, so they can afford more?
That's how people do it here: they see a social need, they start/support an NGO. If we waited for our governments, nothing would have been adressed.
It would be best if the NGO was locally run, only subsided from richer parts of the country.


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cyberdad
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26 Oct 2022, 4:09 pm

Pepe wrote:
You shouldn't automatically believe everything that is said.
The first thing I would enquire about is what is meant by the term "military-style intervention".
.


name me one other Australian community where Australian troops were deployed to seperate families? I'd call that military intervention.



Pepe
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28 Oct 2022, 6:36 am

cyberdad wrote:
I think aboriginal politicians like Jacinta Price are offering a different narrative that is realistic in that it focuses on addressing gaps through cooperative engagement and less on antagonism.


This sounds reasonable.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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28 Oct 2022, 6:40 am

magz wrote:
Why do you believe it had to be official or it wouldn't count?
The point is not what documents say but what communities actually experienced. They experienced near-extinction after colonizers came. That alone is enough to give distrust really deep roots.

The effect would hold even if everyone involved always had had best intentions (i.e. missionaries really often have best intentions but the outcome of their activities can be, to say the least, problematic).


I tried researching but found it too difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff...The bull from the bullshite...
I just gave up. Sorry. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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28 Oct 2022, 6:55 am

magz wrote:
Pepe wrote:
magz wrote:
Being "tough on crime" also does not help with actual social problems, it usually makes them worse.


There aren't enough safe-houses/women-shelters available.
Greater recognition/acceptance of the problem will increase the amount.
It isn't all about punishment.

Then go, start an NGO and run women shelters in the outback.
I bet you're not that kind of a person but how about supporting an existing NGO running shelters in the outback, so they can afford more?
That's how people do it here: they see a social need, they start/support an NGO. If we waited for our governments, nothing would have been adressed.
It would be best if the NGO was locally run, only subsided from richer parts of the country.


You tell 'em. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.