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Entity852
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14 Nov 2022, 4:44 pm

I got it wrong nvm



Last edited by Entity852 on 14 Nov 2022, 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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14 Nov 2022, 6:18 pm

Your question is a string of Non sequiturs (about infrastructure) that have nothing to do with the concept of 'nationalism'.

Nationalism is modern tribalism. Kinda 'racism lite'. Loyality to your tribe. Your ethnic group.

Both Nazism (and ironically) Zionism are forms of nationalism. The American Black Muslims are nationalistic and reverse racists towards Whites, and bind their creed with a bastardized form of Islam. And we now see the rise of White "Christian Nationalism" in America. Loyalty to the subset of Americans who are White, and who are also Evangelical Christians. And using a distorted deformed form of Christianity to bolster the ethnic loyality against others who are not 'truly Americans' (ie brown folks).

Nationalism is often confused with "patriotism". But they are different. Patriotism is love of country. Not love of nationality, ethnicity, or race. A patriotic American honors all Americans of every race and honors its democratic institution.

But you have your own distinct and unique confusion about the word...you confuse 'nationalism' with "domestic spending", or something.

Spending money on roads and bridges has nothing to do with "nationalism". Nationalism is about things like keeping refugees out of America (including refugees who would work cheap to help build our infrastructure).

You seem to think that building bridges comes at the expense of foreign aid, and vice versa. But America only spends a fraction of one percent (not a fraction, not one percent, but a fraction OF one percent) of its GNP on foreign aid. If we got rid of all foreign aid the savings would neglible to the whole nation. And we dont give foreign aid out of charity anyway. We do it because its in our interest to buy friends and influence people abroad (to get allies in the war on terrorism or like that).



Entity852
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14 Nov 2022, 7:00 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Your question is a string of Non sequiturs (about infrastructure) that have nothing to do with the concept of 'nationalism'.

Nationalism is modern tribalism. Kinda 'racism lite'. Loyality to your tribe. Your ethnic group.

Both Nazism (and ironically) Zionism are forms of nationalism. The American Black Muslims are nationalistic and reverse racists towards Whites, and bind their creed with a bastardized form of Islam. And we now see the rise of White "Christian Nationalism" in America. Loyalty to the subset of Americans who are White, and who are also Evangelical Christians. And using a distorted deformed form of Christianity to bolster the ethnic loyality against others who are not 'truly Americans' (ie brown folks).

Nationalism is often confused with "patriotism". But they are different. Patriotism is love of country. Not love of nationality, ethnicity, or race. A patriotic American honors all Americans of every race and honors its democratic institution.

But you have your own distinct and unique confusion about the word...you confuse 'nationalism' with "domestic spending", or something.

Spending money on roads and bridges has nothing to do with "nationalism". Nationalism is about things like keeping refugees out of America (including refugees who would work cheap to help build our infrastructure).

You seem to think that building bridges comes at the expense of foreign aid, and vice versa. But America only spends a fraction of one percent (not a fraction, not one percent, but a fraction OF one percent) of its GNP on foreign aid. If we got rid of all foreign aid the savings would neglible to the whole nation. And we dont give foreign aid out of charity anyway. We do it because its in our interest to buy friends and influence people abroad (to get allies in the war on terrorism or like that).


I won't lie to you, I feel like an idiot now for my original post.

The way I arrived at that conclusion is simple. There's a site called "Quora" and on it I searched "Is nationalism bad?".

Most of the posts said it is not in fact bad and that it should maybe even be encouraged. They then went on to say that our nation should be helping our own citizens first instead of foreign nations. They also include elements of the economic structure as well.

This is how I conflated the two. Because in my area as well as all over the US, I constantly hear others complaining about their cities and towns in disrepair. Nationalism > Putting domestic issues first > Infastructure.

Again, I guess it's just too far off the mark but that's how I figured it in my head.



Fnord
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14 Nov 2022, 7:37 pm

A Comparison of Patriotism vs. Nationalism:

Patriotism: "My country can always do better."
Nationalism: "My country is already the best."

Patriotism: "My country, right or wrong!"
Nationalism: "My country; love it or leave it!"

Patriotism: A sense of personal identification with the country and its people.
Nationalism: A sense of personal identification with the government and the ruling class.

Patriotism: Critical of the country whenever necessary.
Nationalism: Silences the critics whenever possible.

Patriotism: Diversity is the foundation of our existence, and must be encouraged.
Nationalism: Diversity is the bane of our existence, and must be eliminated.

Patriotism: Due process under the law.
Nationalism: Arrest, accuse, convict, sentence, execute/incarcerate -- evidence is irrelevant.

Patriotism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for All.
Nationalism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for the Privileged Few.

Patriotism: Fighting Nazis.
Nationalism: Being Nazis.

Patriotism: Freedom of Press, Speech, and Peaceful Assembly.
Nationalism: Propaganda, Censorship, and Harassment.

Patriotism: Government by consent of the governed.
Nationalism: Government by force and decree of those who govern.

Patriotism: Hiring and promotion based solely on ability.
Nationalism: Hiring and promotion based on race and gender.

Patriotism: Learning from our history and the history of others.
Nationalism: Teaching our version of history to others.

Patriotism: Pride in who you are.
Nationalism: Pride in who you are not.

Patriotism: Special concern for the well-being of the citizenry.
Nationalism: Special concern for the well-being of the leadership.

Patriotism: Upholding the right of others to disagree with authority.
Nationalism: Equating disagreement with treachery, disloyalty, and moral decay.

Patriotism: War should only be undertaken when diplomacy has failed.
Nationalist: Diplomacy flows from the barrel of a gun.

Patriotism: Willingness to sacrifice oneself to promote the country's good.
Nationalism: Willingness to sacrifice others to promote one's own self-interest.

America's problems aren't as much about Left vs. Right as they are about Patriotism vs. Nationalism.


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Entity852
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14 Nov 2022, 7:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
A Comparison of Patriotism vs. Nationalism:

Patriotism: "My country can always do better."
Nationalism: "My country is already the best."

Patriotism: "My country, right or wrong!"
Nationalism: "My country; love it or leave it!"

Patriotism: A sense of personal identification with the country and its people.
Nationalism: A sense of personal identification with the government and the ruling class.

Patriotism: Critical of the country whenever necessary.
Nationalism: Silences the critics whenever possible.

Patriotism: Diversity is the foundation of our existence, and must be encouraged.
Nationalism: Diversity is the bane of our existence, and must be eliminated.

Patriotism: Due process under the law.
Nationalism: Arrest, accuse, convict, sentence, execute/incarcerate -- evidence is irrelevant.

Patriotism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for All.
Nationalism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for the Privileged Few.

Patriotism: Fighting Nazis.
Nationalism: Being Nazis.

Patriotism: Freedom of Press, Speech, and Peaceful Assembly.
Nationalism: Propaganda, Censorship, and Harassment.

Patriotism: Government by consent of the governed.
Nationalism: Government by force and decree of those who govern.

Patriotism: Hiring and promotion based solely on ability.
Nationalism: Hiring and promotion based on race and gender.

Patriotism: Learning from our history and the history of others.
Nationalism: Teaching our version of history to others.

Patriotism: Pride in who you are.
Nationalism: Pride in who you are not.

Patriotism: Special concern for the well-being of the citizenry.
Nationalism: Special concern for the well-being of the leadership.

Patriotism: Upholding the right of others to disagree with authority.
Nationalism: Equating disagreement with treachery, disloyalty, and moral decay.

Patriotism: War should only be undertaken when diplomacy has failed.
Nationalist: Diplomacy flows from the barrel of a gun.

Patriotism: Willingness to sacrifice oneself to promote the country's good.
Nationalism: Willingness to sacrifice others to promote one's own self-interest.

America's problems aren't as much about Left vs. Right as they are about Patriotism vs. Nationalism.


Great rundown, man! Was this like some prewritten list or a work of your own? It's really good.



Fnord
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14 Nov 2022, 7:50 pm

Entity852 wrote:
Great rundown, man! Was this like some prewritten list or a work of your own? It's really good.
I first started the list in 2017 -- during the Orange Man's first year in office -- when I realized that hardly anyone seemed to understand the differences between Patriotism and Nationalism.  I have been honing the list ever since.

Just like few people seem to understand the differences between Democrats, Leftists, and Liberals.

Or Communism and Socialism.

Or Their, There, and They're.


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Mikah
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14 Nov 2022, 10:08 pm

Patriotism: Petting kittens.
Nationalism: Eating kittens.


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