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Gammeldans
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27 Nov 2022, 3:19 am

I'm really tired of the human fascination with categorizing people. I can't stand the Asperger's vs NT categorization thing.
Perhaps it is a bad thing in many ways.
A lot of what I need is what many people with NT need and what many with asperger's do not need.

I've seen this so many times. A lot of the strategies that I need are the same strategies that people with NT also need.
I'm not saying that I am not different 'cause I am different.
It is more like people with NT can tolerate using bad strategies in life, I guess...but we suck at it.
I know that NT people do not have the meltdown or freeze issues (or perhaps some have?) but we are more simmilar than we think.
And sometimes I am very different from other "aspies".

Also, the thing about NT is confusing because we are talking about a diagnosis that is not in the DSM or ICD.

What do you think? Do you have anything helpful to say?



ASPartOfMe
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27 Nov 2022, 6:04 am

Gammeldans wrote:
I'm really tired of the human fascination with categorizing people. I can't stand the Asperger's vs NT categorization thing.
Perhaps it is a bad thing in many ways.
A lot of what I need is what many people with NT need and what many with asperger's do not need.

I've seen this so many times. A lot of the strategies that I need are the same strategies that people with NT also need.
I'm not saying that I am not different 'cause I am different.
It is more like people with NT can tolerate using bad strategies in life, I guess...but we suck at it.
I know that NT people do not have the meltdown or freeze issues (or perhaps some have?) but we are more simmilar than we think.
And sometimes I am very different from other "aspies".

Also, the thing about NT is confusing because we are talking about a diagnosis that is not in the DSM or ICD.

What do you think? Do you have anything helpful to say?

Pretty much every Autistic trait NT’s have in one way or another. And there is “If you have met one Autistic person, you have met one autistic person” idea. The Autism Spectrum covers a wide variety of severities and personality types. What is diagnosed as Autism is a person having most of the autistic traits in a way that impairs them. How those core traits present can vary greatly based on personality.

NT won’t get diagnosed because “normal” is by and of itself not viewed as impairing. Neurotypical is just a word Autistic people created to describe people who are not autistic. It has expanded to mean people who are not neurodivergent.

Currently Autism is diagnosed by behaviors which are subjective. The confusion is not going to end until such time as a non subjective way of diagnosing Autism is found.


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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity

“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman


Gammeldans
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27 Nov 2022, 5:01 pm

"Some psychologists think the definition of autism has become too broad. They say a term that encompasses people at all points on the cognitive curve is so broad as to be useless. That is the essence of debate around the "high functioning," "low functioning" labeling so many autistics find offensive. Fact is, other descriptors are applied to people with all possible cognitive abilities. Think of the range of depressed people, or anxious people, to name two of the most common."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -too-broad

We might actually be dealing with two very broad categories, ie ASD and NT.
I am not sure DSM and ICD got it right.
Either you're a high functioning NT or an aspie? Am I supposed to just accept that without questioning it? Yes.
Am I going to? No!

Sorry guys but I am not going to make ASD my big identity. I will not call myself an aspie.
I think we humans like categorizing a lot. This is also why we have disc analysis.
We are trying to make complex things simple. We can't because something complex cannot be simple.
This is not me saying that an asperger's diagnosis is only bad. I am saying that we must avoid putting people into simplistic categories.

Does the typical person even exist? Shouldn't we actually say that all people are neurodiverse?
I wonder how many of the people who use the term neurotypical can actually find evidence for the "normal brain".
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2019 ... ust-a-myth



ToughDiamond
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27 Nov 2022, 11:17 pm

I think ASD and NT are useful concepts, but like most reductionist labels, although they can help us to think about things they can blind us to important details of reality if they're taken too far. I prefer to think about individual traits, but even they can lose information.



naturalplastic
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28 Nov 2022, 3:26 am

Wishing for a world without labels is pointless and stupid. Because labeling per se is inescapable.

And you wouldnt want a world without labels anyway (because your brain wouldnt be able to function if your mind were forbidden to generate labels- names-and categories).

The issue is not labels vs no labels. The issue is more productive labels vs less productive labels.

If we were to abandon "nt vs asd" and you were no longer 'labeled' as "autistic" then society would NOT abandon labels. And you would not become this unfettered free person that you imagine you would become. The opposite would happen. Society would simply revert to the old days. Back when you would still be 'labeled', but with labels like 'neurotic', or 'retard', or 'lazy bum of bad character', or some such other more derogatory label to explain your autistic behavior they wouldve used in the old days. And you might well be locked away in an institution.

On the other hand- you are right about how vastly different, and even opposite traits- get lumped under autism (like a child who day dreams all of the time is lumped with a child who has aphantasia).

The science is still young.

Astronomy is a lot older a science then psychology, but astronomers still cant agree on what the meaning of the word "planet" is. So its gonna be a while before we get our brain science and social science mature and integrated enough to figure out exactly what the varieties of autism are and how to objectively diagnose them.



Gammeldans
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28 Nov 2022, 10:56 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
I think ASD and NT are useful concepts, but like most reductionist labels, although they can help us to think about things they can blind us to important details of reality if they're taken too far. I prefer to think about individual traits, but even they can lose information.

Reductionist label is such a good term.



Elfwink
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29 Nov 2022, 4:10 am

In addition to the 'spectrum', I like to think there's a whole range of neurotypes and neuro-features.

Just like human voices all sound different, and dogs come in so many sizes and colours...

So if you happen to have a certain amount of 'neuro-features', then that qualifies for being autistic.


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