Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

Sonic200
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 12 Jul 2021
Gender: Male
Posts: 284

30 Nov 2022, 5:28 pm

Why the emphasis on the five golden rings?



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

30 Nov 2022, 5:37 pm

Its just punctuates the verses of the song.

There is no meaning behind it.



Fenn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Sep 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,055
Location: Pennsylvania

30 Nov 2022, 6:22 pm

Maybe the golden rings were wedding rings? The whole rest of the song doesn't mention gold. Having bought jewelry for my wife I can say for certain that gold, real gold, not just gold leaf, is very expensive, even compared to silver. Give a woman a ring and it usually means JUST ONE THING.

Good Housekeeping has an article:

goodhousekeeping.com - 12 Days of Christmas Meaning

There is probably absolutely nothing in the song that has to do with these rings:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them,
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.


_________________
ADHD-I(diagnosed) ASD-HF(undiagnosed - maybe)
RDOS scores - Aspie score 131/200 - neurotypical score 69/200 - very likely Aspie


DeathFlowerKing
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Sep 2022
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,761
Location: City of Roses

30 Nov 2022, 6:43 pm

3 were gifted to the race of elves. Immortal, fairest, and wisest of all beings.

7 were given to the dwarf lords. Great miners and craftsmen.

9 were gifted to the race of man, who above all else... desire power.

:mrgreen:

Edit: darn somebody beat me to that. :lol:



lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,380
Location: Lost on Earth, waddya think?

30 Nov 2022, 6:56 pm

What I find strange is that there are so many birds in it. Were live birds once a common Christmas present?

Whatever, it's just a song. :roll:



kitesandtrainsandcats
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2016
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,637
Location: Missouri

30 Nov 2022, 6:57 pm

Perhaps this?

Quote:
3. "Five golden rings" may actually refer to five pheasants. Mike Bergin of 10,000 Birds (https://www.10000birds.com/birds-of-the ... istmas.htm) explains that the song's seemingly bizarre switch from four birds, to five pieces of jewelry, and back to six birds actually makes perfect sense: The "five golden rings" are likely a reference to ring-necked pheasants.


https://theweek.com/articles/469452/5-t ... -christmas


_________________
"There are a thousand things that can happen when you go light a rocket engine, and only one of them is good."
Tom Mueller of SpaceX, in Air and Space, Jan. 2011


Doberdoofus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2021
Age: 50
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,166
Location: Orbiting Wrong Planet

30 Nov 2022, 7:16 pm

Found this on why it's gold rings not golden rings.

Quote:
Is there a musical reason? Maybe, but read on.

Let's start by looking at the history of the lyrics

The earliest version attested by the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes dates from the 17th Century, and gives 'Five gold rings.'

If we step forward to the 19th Century, there are 9 printed documents that contain lyrics, from Halliwell's 1842 'The Nursery Rhymes of England' through to Cole's article in volume xiii of the 1900 'The Journal of American Folklore.'

All 9 of these documents attest 'gold' rather than 'golden.'

I've not been able to find anything before the 20th Century that says 'golden.'

However, if we move to the Scottish version, which doesn't quite have the same countdown, there is a reference to 'goldspinks', which was a local version of 'goldfinch', as in the bird. This makes quite a lot of sense, in that from seven downwards, we have birds:

Seven swans (a-swimming)
Six geese (a-laying)
Five gold-spinks
Four Colly birds [1]
Three French hens
Two turtle doves
And a partridge in a pear tree [2]

[1] A Colley bird is a traditional word for a blackbird. The 19th Century sources are all over the place here. From Canary birds to Colley birds, to Coloured birds. 'Calling birds' is very much 20th Century.

[2] Sources as early as 1867 claim that pear tree is a corruption of 'perdrix' the French for Patridge, and the original may have been 'a partridge, une perdrix' (remember that perdrix is sort of pronounced pear-dree.)

So, for that reason, goldenspinks would be wrong, and goldspinks correct.


Now let's turn to the musical issue.

The song's 17th Century, right?

Well, the version you are probably singing to yourself is almost certainly the 1909 Novello arrangement by Frederic Austin, which is the first written version of the 2-bar 'five gold rings' motif that breaks the rhythm of the previous lines. (The other 'innovation' it added was the written substitution of 'calling birds' for the traditional 'Colley birds.')

It breaks the rhythm - and it's traditional to have a massive ritenuendo on that phrase before the 'a tempo' finish, so I think that it makes a lot of sense to make the syllable last two notes rather than trying to squeeze an extra 'en' in.


So, is it gold or golden?

Since we documentary evidence of when the prolonged 'go-old' melody was written, and can see that 'gold' were the lyrics selected, we can say that 'golden' is a modern travesty. Gold rings it is.

Further reading: The Twelve Days of Christmas (song)


_________________
I don't follow society's rules. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules I have to follow when the Dark Passenger calls.

Don't be so eager to be offended. The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring kind of conformity.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

30 Nov 2022, 9:32 pm

So...

it was either 'gold rings' (pheasants), or "gold finches".
Either makes more sense than literal gold rings.

And ''the calling birds" are really "colley birds", which are black birds.

And it breaks the song cleanly into two parts. One part all birds, the second part all humans (pipers, maids a milking, drummers).

So far so good.


But whats with that "lords a leaping" business?

Did the singer's true love hire 12 guys from the House of Lords to high jump in front of her just for her entertainment?



Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 18,624
Location: Aux Arcs

30 Nov 2022, 9:41 pm

They were leaping around trying to catch all those birds.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 68
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,784
Location: temperate zone

01 Dec 2022, 5:39 am

Wait a minute.

Youre saying that "pear tree" is really a distorted version of the French word for partridge?

That would make it "a partridge in a partridge".

Whats up with that? A live partridge being stuffed with a dead partridge?



Doberdoofus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2021
Age: 50
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,166
Location: Orbiting Wrong Planet

01 Dec 2022, 9:28 am

^

I guess you mean my post which is a quote off quora.

I thought that line was meant as a bilingual line "And a partridge, une perdrix'.

Although I like your interpretation that it may have been the first example of a bird in bird cooking recipe :lol:


_________________
I don't follow society's rules. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules I have to follow when the Dark Passenger calls.

Don't be so eager to be offended. The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring kind of conformity.


League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,102
Location: Pacific Northwest

01 Dec 2022, 9:52 am

Sonic needs at least 1 ring to avoid death unless he falls off the screen or gets crushed.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


Doberdoofus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2021
Age: 50
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,166
Location: Orbiting Wrong Planet

01 Dec 2022, 9:54 am

^ best answer :wtg:


_________________
I don't follow society's rules. But that doesn't mean there aren't rules I have to follow when the Dark Passenger calls.

Don't be so eager to be offended. The narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring kind of conformity.


IsabellaLinton
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Nov 2017
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 53,470

01 Dec 2022, 1:43 pm

My mum and daughter were born on Five Golden Rings, along with my mum’s grandma and her grandma and her grandma.

The significance is I have to go birthday shopping soon.



CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 109,289
Location: On a special base where the Christmas soldiers of the world live

01 Dec 2022, 11:43 pm

When I think of Five Golden Rings, I think about the Olympics. One of my lifelong special interests.


_________________
Oberfeldwebel

Age: 48
Gender: Non-Binary
Pronouns: He/Him/His
IQ: 86 and I use all 86 of them.