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Abortion regret

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Mona Pereth
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15 Jan 2023, 3:47 am

Here is a relevant Science News article:

5 misunderstandings of pregnancy biology that cloud the abortion debate

Brief excerpt from the intro:

Quote:
Some states have already passed laws that curtail abortion access. Now, without the federal protections Roe v. Wade provided, other states will likely follow suit.

Many of those legislative efforts invoke medical and scientific language, in an effort to define when life begins. Heart development, fetal pain and viability have all been brought into justification for abortion restrictions. But many of these rationales don’t line up with the biology of early development. Texas’ 2021 “heartbeat law,” for instance, bans abortion after about six weeks when heart cells purportedly begin thumping. At that early stage of pregnancy, there isn’t yet a fully formed heart to beat.

I won't quote the full article, but some people here may find it helpful.


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AngelRho
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15 Jan 2023, 9:02 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
You've hit on precisely why sentience is relevant. Elderly people are sentient people,

Evidence.

Please.

What? Are you really asking for evidence that elderly people are sentient??? Or did you mean to ask a different question?

Not all human beings outside the womb express sentience as we understand it. Dementia patients. Paraplegics. Certain other disabilities. Think about any time you've been to a nursing home and there's that one patient sitting in the hallway, staring at nothing, all sorts of bags hanging off the wheelchair, and you think maybe you got her attention and she smiles back and makes a grunting sound. Could be sentience, could just be a reflex. You don't know whether there's a person behind those sightless eyes.

Evil people can broaden/narrow standards by which we define sentience to get rid of anyone we don't want or anyone we might find inconvenient. Doesn't make it right.

In my view, the question of sentience is irrelevant. A human life is a human life and that's all that matters.



AngelRho
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15 Jan 2023, 9:05 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
In a majority Christian country? Pull the other one!

Things change, brother.



auntblabby
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15 Jan 2023, 9:16 am

i don't want to live in a country that would force women to have babies by banning abortion for all 'cept the rich as no stinkin' law affects them ever. or would criminalize birth control. or would routinely jail women for miscarriages. this has already been happening in other crazy countries. we should not join the crazies, we're supposed to be better than that.



Last edited by auntblabby on 15 Jan 2023, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

beady
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15 Jan 2023, 9:16 am

A previous conversation within this thread was deleted.

This is a few facts that intersect this discusssion and apply to those in the USA.
This is only a portion of this section. Feel free to read the entire constituion and amendments in their entirety.

Amendment XIV of the Constituion of the United States:
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Reference:
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27

The USA recognizes citizenship at birth, not before.



AngelRho
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15 Jan 2023, 6:49 pm

beady wrote:
A previous conversation within this thread was deleted.

This is a few facts that intersect this discusssion and apply to those in the USA.
This is only a portion of this section. Feel free to read the entire constituion and amendments in their entirety.

Amendment XIV of the Constituion of the United States:
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Reference:
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27

The USA recognizes citizenship at birth, not before.

How is this relevant? If a non-citizen in the United States becomes the victim of unjustifiable homicide, it's still murder.



RetroGamer87
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15 Jan 2023, 8:01 pm

AngelRho wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
In a majority Christian country? Pull the other one!

Things change, brother.

Things change but this one hasn't changed yet. You're just trying to pull the tired old game of pretending Christians are a minority in your country.

Face it brother, you're not living inside of a Chick tract.


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RetroGamer87
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15 Jan 2023, 8:05 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i don't want to live in a country that would force women to have babies by banning abortion for all 'cept the rich as no stinkin' law affects them ever. or would criminalize birth control. or would routinely jail women for miscarriages. this has already been happening in other crazy countries. we should not join the crazies, we're supposed to be better than that.

From what I'm seeing you're rapidly losing the status of being better. Welcome to the land of religious control. Population, you.


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15 Jan 2023, 9:34 pm

auntblabby wrote:
i don't want to live in a country that would force women to have babies by banning abortion for all 'cept the rich as no stinkin' law affects them ever. or would criminalize birth control. or would routinely jail women for miscarriages. this has already been happening in other crazy countries. we should not join the crazies, we're supposed to be better than that.


Bien fait.


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15 Jan 2023, 10:13 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i don't want to live in a country that would force women to have babies by banning abortion for all 'cept the rich as no stinkin' law affects them ever. or would criminalize birth control. or would routinely jail women for miscarriages. this has already been happening in other crazy countries. we should not join the crazies, we're supposed to be better than that.


Bien fait.


America always gets the politicians it deserves.


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16 Jan 2023, 12:25 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i don't want to live in a country that would force women to have babies by banning abortion for all 'cept the rich as no stinkin' law affects them ever. or would criminalize birth control. or would routinely jail women for miscarriages. this has already been happening in other crazy countries. we should not join the crazies, we're supposed to be better than that.


Bien fait.


America always gets the politicians it deserves.

or as pogo said, "we have met the enemy, and he is US." our fellow 'muuricans screwed the rest of us over. dog eat dog.



Mona Pereth
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16 Jan 2023, 12:54 am

AngelRho wrote:
A human life is a human life and that's all that matters.

So when does "human life" begin?

Since you're an evangelical Christian, I would be interested in your thoughts on what the Bible has to say about that matter. I'm not Christian myself, but it seems to me that the Bible does NOT support the idea that human life, with all the rights thereof, begins at conception.

Please see my separate thread Christian (vs. Biblical?) views about when human life begins.


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AngelRho
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16 Jan 2023, 2:03 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
A human life is a human life and that's all that matters.

So when does "human life" begin?

Since you're an evangelical Christian, I would be interested in your thoughts on what the Bible has to say about that matter. I'm not Christian myself, but it seems to me that the Bible does NOT support the idea that human life, with all the rights thereof, begins at conception.

Please see my separate thread Christian (vs. Biblical?) views about when human life begins.

Well, you're making the mistake of presupposing that the Bible doesn't say anything about it. I don't accept the premise that the Bible is silent on the topic of life in the womb.

Also, don't assume I’m totally opposed to abortion. More appropriately I’m opposed to MOST abortions. Protecting the unborn in a secular society is a matter of law. If you ban ALL abortions and declare personhood at fertilization, then you could conceivably punish women for miscarriage. Heck, fertilized eggs die, periods come and go, and you’ll never know any different. So if we can establish that it is an individual human, we can also extend protection to it under the law.

Life, of course, begins well before fertilization. Eggs and sperm are living cells. So are skin cells. This is not a debate about protecting every clump of cells by declaring them human. Of course they’re human. The point is what makes up a distinct, individual human. A baby in a womb is no less an individual than any of us, and that deserves protection just as well as the rest of us.



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16 Jan 2023, 2:28 am

AngelRho wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
A human life is a human life and that's all that matters.

So when does "human life" begin?

Since you're an evangelical Christian, I would be interested in your thoughts on what the Bible has to say about that matter. I'm not Christian myself, but it seems to me that the Bible does NOT support the idea that human life, with all the rights thereof, begins at conception.

Please see my separate thread Christian (vs. Biblical?) views about when human life begins.

Well, you're making the mistake of presupposing that the Bible doesn't say anything about it.

He didn't say the Bible doesn't say anything about it. He says it doesn't support it. That could mean it says something to the contrary, not that it is "silent" on the issue.

Anyway, why don't you tell us which part of the Bible says life begins with sperm meets egg.


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